recording drums on 4 mics

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Bane of All Existence
Member Since: Mar 27, 2003

you guys are really helping me out, and i appreciate it. i'm using (3) SM57s and (1) Beta 52 that i got in a drum mic package. i'm going into a small behringer mixer (MX802A) with 4 mic preamps, and using the stereo RCA connections to get to my audiophile 2496, and sonic foundry vegas takes it from there.

i'm experimenting with mic placement and doing my best to mix the mics. as you can see, the flexibility to have multiple tracks doesn't really exist. so far, the best placement i can come up with is putting all the 57s overhead in a left/center/right fashion, and panning accordingly. the center is panned a 25% left, though. i use the 52 on the bass drum, and pan that a 25% right.

64.147.14.11:801/song2.mp3

that's a copy of the recording. it's on a practice set, so the cymbals are pretty crappy and washy.

if anyone has any insights into a better mic placement with the microphones that i have and perhaps some tips on how to tweak the mixer, i'd very much appreciate it. i'm still getting my sea legs!

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Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Apr 09, 2003 06:24 pm

that song is cool. the little twinkly part that begins at 0:35 reminds of Minibosses covering Metroid. That's a good thing.

as for drum mic placement, i've never done it but i've read a bit about it. first off, please understand that i think you've got a great sound going on there, so if that's the feel you were looking for then don't change. i've just never heard anyone record drums quite like that. They seem much louder in left channel. I think generally what you might do is use your left and right overheads panned left and right like you've got, but use the third sm57 on the snare (maybe try to get the hat in there too) and pan that more towards the center. do the same with the kick drum, keeping it centred. this might give more even levels among the left and right channels.

oddly enough, i must admit that hearing the bass slightly off center and the snare popping over there slightly left is a refreshing sound to my ears. maybe you're on to something :O)

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 09, 2003 07:05 pm

thank you for your response. i appreciate your comment about the song. we recorded it with worse equipment, but had a better feel to it, and the entire song is here:
www.directqlick.com/host/001C/chinbo2.mp3

i'll try putting the SM57 on the snare/hi-hat instead of the center. i tried that before, but was having a bit of difficulty adjusting it with the mixer, as my control room is the instrument room is our practice space.

i did the panning like that because it seemed like it sounded more like i was actually at the set playing the drums. i'll play around with it and see what i can get. i put the bass drum off center because i wanted to counter it in the stereo field with the bass guitar (which i am playing on the recordings).

the minibosses are cool (i like their double dragon covers), and metroid kicks ***.

more of our tunes are at:
www.prophecygo.com/index_music.htm

thanks again!

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Apr 09, 2003 07:21 pm

I don't have the time to listen to your song at the moment, but here is the setup I use when recording drums with only 4 mics:

Remove the Front skin from the Kick drum and place the Beta 52 right inside close to the back skin (where the beater hits it) - dampen the kick drum with duvets, pillows, small childer to taste.

Use an SM-57 to mic up the snare. Place it so that if you are sat on the drummer's stool, it is facing you coming from just to the right of the High Tom and facing down towards the snare. Close Mic it so that the 57 is about 6cms from the skin of the snare and have it pointing towards the center. If the snare if creating too much ring, then apply a loop of gaffa tape or two to it (get some gaffa tape and make a loop with it (so that the sticky side is facing outwards).

Now use the two remaining 57's to capture as much of the Tom-Tom's as possible - Place the stands behind the drummer and have the mic's coming from behind his head.

As far as EQ goes:

Boost the low and High on the Kick drum by about 3dB, cut the Mid by 5dB.

Boost the High and Low on the Snare mic - leave the mid intact.

Boost the Low and High on the two overheads - cut the mid by 3dB, pan your overheads 90% respectivly.

Give that a try.

Oh, also, I would reccomend that you come out of the Main Outputs of the MX802 rather than the Tape Loop.

jues.

Member
Since: Apr 26, 2002


Apr 09, 2003 08:55 pm

What I would do is put the kick mic on the kick (obviously). Jues' method sounds good. Put one sm57 right between the snare / hi hat.

Put the other 2 sm57's on either side of the kit, between the cymbals and the toms. Put them more to the front of the kit, and point them towords the drummer.

Depending on the volume of the toms / cymbals, you might have to move them up or down.

Try that out.

Member
Since: Feb 11, 2003


Apr 09, 2003 10:36 pm

In relation to jues comments:

"Oh, also, I would reccomend that you come out of the Main Outputs of the MX802 rather than the Tape Loop"

Any reason fo this? That's how I'm currently setup: tape in to soundcard in
soundcard out to tape out
No problems, but does it limit my options in some way?

Thanks


Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Apr 09, 2003 11:20 pm

I think it has something to do with how hot the output is. I believe the Tape Outs being RCAs will be regular consumer line level, where the Main Outs will be a cleaner +10dB line level, which means less noise (i think!)

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 10, 2003 04:00 am

that makes sense. i have to have the main out knob at around 2. the LEDs on it only go to -40 or so. i didn't have any RCA to 1/4" adapters, and i always hate going to radio shack and buying stuff that's on 20,000,000% markup.

i'll give that a go though. i'll also try out those mic setups. you guys are awesome!

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Apr 10, 2003 08:52 am

AndrewB, basically what Jamie said - the RCA out is not the cleanest signal path, it's a better idea to leave the card via the Main Outputs which nearly 100% of the time, be of a higher quality with the signal as a lower level.

jues.

Member
Since: Dec 16, 2002


Apr 10, 2003 10:26 am

Hey Minkus, I think you achieved a good sound there, having heard your recording. What was it recorded on - PC or multitracker, or whatever? Did you use a band or play all yourself?

The track reminded me of a kind of '70s prog jazz/rock groove (whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you!).

I'm certainly no expert, but the drum sound was good to my ears, I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe a touch of reverb to the drums might help, but that's just a personal preference.

Good sounding recording overall - so hence the question about what equipment you used. I have a Fostex vf160 which I bought recently.

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 10, 2003 11:39 am

glynb - thanks! the part of the style comparison that flatters me the most is the "groove" part. that element is essential to the three of us, and i appreciate it very much!

it was recorded into an audiophile 2496 in my PC, Left stereo channel being one track, and Right being another. it means that i've gotta get a solid sound in the mixer before getting it to the computer. jues' EQ help will give me a boost for sure. the only EQ i did in that recording was gutting the highs on the kick.

actually...if you listened to the full song, that was recorded onto my PC through a 4-track rather than the equipment that i listed in one of the first posts in this thread. the other tunes that i posted were recorded by a friend who has a lot of talent doing this.

thanks again!

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 11, 2003 04:07 pm

64.147.14.11:801/chompies.mp3

that's what i came up with. thanks for the help. any suggestions? this is just a scratch mix. when the toms hit, it sounds like they go from being clear drums to video game booming noises...i've got a sonic foundry compressor plugin doing 3:1 at -15db.

thanks again!

The Quiet Minded
Member
Since: Jan 01, 2003


Apr 13, 2003 11:06 am

Hey Minkus, can you tell me something about the room you recorded these drums?

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Apr 13, 2003 11:10 am

i downloaded 'message'..its top! very impressive!
is all your stuff instrumental or is there a vocalist too?

from that track at least, i wouldnt worry a bit about any aspect of your sound!

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 13, 2003 11:24 am

the room...it's a small practice room that we rent in an industral area. it's got carpet on the floor, vaulted ceilings with cloth up there, and squares of bedfoam around the perimeter of the room about halfway up. it's not tuned or anything, but it's not half bad!

thanks! message (as we used to call it) is a fun song to play. we've tweaked it in the 7 months or so since we recorded that, and now it really brings down the house.

our stuff is totally instrumental right now. we used to have a singer, but he wasn't part of the band like the three of us were. we all thought about doing vocals, but we really have to focus to play what we want. if a vocalist comes along, great. if not, we'll be fine.

thanks :-)

The Quiet Minded
Member
Since: Jan 01, 2003


Apr 13, 2003 09:02 pm

just to let you know minkus, I loved your band and have already burned a cd with all your available music. Heard it 3 times in the last 3 hours!

thanxs for making good stuff

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 14, 2003 10:52 am

thanks! compliments like that make all this worth it! i'll definitely keep you guys posted when we've got more recordings!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Apr 14, 2003 04:14 pm

Minkus, I just got a chance to listen today. Gotta say, I like it, but I am partial to instrumental stuff. You have enough comments form the others so Ill leave that be. But I do look forward to hearing more from your band in the future.

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Apr 15, 2003 05:24 am

just listening to some other songs on your site now. I love all the guitar runs and strange timing changes. lots of fun. this is the kind of stuff i make when i'm just noodlin around at 3AM

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Apr 19, 2003 04:00 pm

BTW, that chinbo song had been in my head on and off this morning. i looked around the forums and couldn't figure out where'd i'd heard it. i finally had to search against "metroid" and found this thread. just thought i'd say so :O) you guys sound great, you should cover some nintendo tunes. -j

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Apr 19, 2003 08:58 pm

thanks :-)

i jammed out the first 20 seconds of that song just fooling around, and our guitarist steven picked up and pulled out that verse. it's big time fun to play :-)

here's one i did myself just now. i wrote this song in my head back in summer of 2000, and i'm glad to finally get a chance to put down some ideas.

64.147.14.11:801/project2_quikmix.mp3

i sequenced the drums in sonic foundry acid using samples that i bought for $20, put together pretty much exactly how i'd play it. the guitar is my crappy, crappy harmony through a crappy, crappy crate GX-15 that i mic'd with a 57. i haven't gotten to bass yet, and i'm not sure i'll do that until i get a chance to track these drums with my hands and feet. haven't done mixing or levels yet, and i'm not sure if i'll take the time.

we'll learn some nintendo songs for sure :-) we already jam on the music for the first world in SMB 3. it's grooovay.

thanks again!

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