vocal panning issues

Posted on

www.dorian-music.co.uk
Member Since: Apr 04, 2008

hello,

just wondering if anyone has any advice regarding the panning of my vocal track.

I am currently trying the technique of having the same vocal track on two tracks - one panned left, the other right, and one of them with a slight delay on it to make the vocals sound bigger. im liking it, but it seems to be rather random where in the stereo image the vocals come from depending on what i listen with. On my monitors they are ok, on headphones they seemed quite a lot left, so i fixed it for them by shifting the panning to get them in the middle. Its still fine on my monitors, but when i play it on the hifi upstairs, they are left again!.. is this normal for this technique? I noticed that the hifi speakers are not angled in towards the optimum listening position as my monitors are - could this be a reason why?

Both the tracks have completely different volumes, but I take it that that is normal for this technique in order to get the sound in the centre.

I think I have a delay of 20 ms?? or 0.20 in nuendo anyway, i think thats ms though..

does anyone have any advice about this technique?

thanks in advance!

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http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Jun 01, 2009 06:25 am

not sure on that one but

check out the panning help, coz i seem to remember that using certain pans can make the vol louder also.

when i add delay this way, i set up 2 delay channels.
the left vocal track has a delay panned right and the right track panned left. seems to work well. dont have to necessarliy pan full left or right. wherever it sits well.

im not sure if technically its suppose to work like this, but it does for me.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jun 01, 2009 01:28 pm

Me personally I do not pan lead vox unless I am specifically looking for seperation.

If they are exact doubles I leave them both centered with one louder than the other. I then run a minimal amount of delay to widen them a bit by routing to a buss.

If one is an accent track I would double and pan that while leaving the lead centered.

If you want to pan a lead vocal that is doubled I would have them at the same volume.

bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


Jun 01, 2009 02:18 pm

My general rule of thumb is to trust the headphones when dealing with panning issues.

Typo Szar
Member
Since: Jul 04, 2002


Jun 01, 2009 08:14 pm

First off i wouldnt pan the vocal trax if ur looking for that kind of two voices off effect, i think it works better when their on top of eachother so u can really hear each syllable coming in and riding the other, also, if i recorded both parts twice and then panned them, i probably wouldnt use delay since usually the inaccuracy of human performance will already give u some cool doubling.

but aside from that... have u just tried soloing the trax and looking at the stereo output? if its coming up equal on both sides then u probably have a problem with ur export OR speaker system. If not, as in the stereo output is different, probably means its not as center as u believe.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Jun 01, 2009 08:40 pm

If you're using nothing but delay and panning, you're going to come up against pretty substantial phase issues / Haas effect problems, etc.

You can't "just* delay & pan and expect it to work...

20ms is 20ms. 0.20 is probably a fifth of a second. Big (BIG) difference.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jun 02, 2009 11:23 am

Just for my own knowledge.

When I do delay a vocal I usually do something like -3msL -9msR and then mix wet/dry about 10%L and 15%R (or more if needed).

Is this horribly wrong?


MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Jun 02, 2009 05:50 pm

If it sounds good, there you go. If it doesn't collapse to mono well, then you might want to make some adjustments. 3 & 9ms are awfully close to the source and awfully close to each other... But if it works, it works.

The percentages should be 100% wet and ---

Okay, you have them inserted as opposed to using an aux send...?

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jun 02, 2009 06:06 pm

Indeed, I insert them on a single buss and route the vox to that. I usually do most of my mixing in mono as well.

Now I have tried the aux send to a buss with 100% (while sending the tracks to another buss) and manipulate the volume, I guess I just don't like the effect that much, just a tad. I do use that process on drums quite often though.

Would creating two busses, one with eq/comp (for track output) and the other with eq/comp/delay (for aux send) be a better way of going about things?

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Jun 02, 2009 10:11 pm

Just as a rule of thumb - If you want to affect a signal (generally for EQ, dynamics, true delay of the entire signal, etc.), insert. If you want to add to a signal (additional delay, reverb & spatial effects, modulation, etc., etc., etc.), send.

Your sends are going to very likely be post-EQ anyway.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jun 03, 2009 02:42 pm

Roger that, on the EQ I don't use the channel strips but inserted ParaEQs or 31band. Do the inserted FX affect the send? If so then I would EQ/Comp the channel and then send to the verb/delay. If not I would want to send to a buss that has EQ/Comp/Verb/Delay (whatever needed) as well right?

I like the line on affecting vs adding to, makes sense put that way.

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