Apr 02, 2009 03:25 pm I've mixed several dozen metal records and I don't think I've ever put a compressor on a distorted rhythm guitar before.
Not to actually control the dynamics, anyway...
compression!?#$&^%
Posted on Apr 02, 2009 02:42 pm
Tinstryde
giv me gear
Member Since: Jan 29, 2009
does this waveform look too compressed?does it sound too compressed?
i experimented with a lot of compression.has it ruined it?
i was following the aproach similar too what i will be following in a complete mix.not just a solo instrument.
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Apr 02, 2009 03:25 pm I've mixed several dozen metal records and I don't think I've ever put a compressor on a distorted rhythm guitar before.
Not to actually control the dynamics, anyway...
Apr 02, 2009 03:29 pm Yeah, compression on a distorted guitar can be odd, especially if you solo on the same track (or your rythm switches between high and low tones).
The chunky rythms tend to be higher in the waveform where the higher notes don't "look" as loud. Problem is, they are different Freq's and should not be matching in the waveform. If you squash a higher note to be the same level "visually" as the lower rythm, that high note will be at a screaming level.
Now some compression on a solo track to give more sustain, totally usable.
Just my experience, I could be 100% wrong.
Apr 02, 2009 03:34 pm Quote:
does this waveform look too compressed?
Actual screen shot.
Apr 02, 2009 04:23 pm Distorted guitars are already compressed by nature. No need to compress them further unless you're going for a specific effect.
Apr 02, 2009 04:37 pm [quote]
Quote:
does this waveform look too compressed?
Actual screen shot.[/quote]
Not only freakishly hyper-compressed, but probably around 12dB too hot.
Apr 02, 2009 04:57 pm L
O
L
Is that a Metallica song??
Apr 02, 2009 09:41 pm ha ha, its gotta be dont it?
at first i was looking at the line in the middle thinking mwhat?
there's still room to compress it more though, im unimpressed. ha haha.
Apr 02, 2009 10:33 pm does it sound bad?
i actually tried -30db!
Apr 02, 2009 11:13 pm na it doesnt sound bad to me. what ratio did you use on the compressor?
the first thing i guess you'll notice when comprssing too much, is the life kinda gets squashed out of it.
best way is to listen to both tracks, one without comp and the other with, and see which one you think is best. its a matter of taste.
remembering though, what it sounds like by itself means little once you put it in a mix situation.
the object there, is not to have any frequencies from other instruments competing with each other. sometimes a great guitar sound by itself wont work in a mix for that reason.
tis why we eq things. to sit em in the mix more betterer.
for example, if the guitar, drums and bass, all have relative frequencies you will have to eq it so they arent competing. Eg 10k. whether that be in volume and or eq.
ya just dont want the to close toghether.
i just had a similar problem which i dint end up working out in the end. for some reason my bass was pumping in and out while a lead was playing over it.
i can only assume it was frequencies smashing each other...somewhere, anyway.
hope this helps.
i do have a question for someone though.
(hope you dont mind Tinman)
If you have,competing frequencies, what is the minimum you would expect change of a freq. before it no longer is an issue??
eg. i have a guitar at 10k., a kick, and maybe some vox all competing for that freq.
would simply moving the freq. range a slight bit off one another be sufficient? (apart form listening)
Apr 03, 2009 10:12 pm Tinstryde, you'll get used to the sense of humor around here. It can seem odd at times.
Many of us have a thing on over compression and the loudness wars.
So you'll find a lot of folks get up in arms about over doing the compressor, especially on guitar track that are already heavy and compressed by nature when using high gain settings and distortion.
Apr 04, 2009 01:09 am i feel i like the loudness war!much to the disgust of you guys i suppose!makes things interesting and ummmmmm...LOUD!
ok that ws a joke!
i actually hate the loudness war because basically i am incapable of getting my mix to sound that loud and look like a loser in these modern loud times!
Apr 04, 2009 03:26 am Deon -
For your question... I'd imagine it to be from 2-5 db... The human, untrained, can just begin to detect stuff at a 2db cut. And I imagine 5 would be enough to make it seem less of a problem.
Apr 04, 2009 03:49 am cool man cheers.
Apr 04, 2009 10:48 pm Tinstryde, in reality you would not be a looser for not getting your mix that loud. People will actually be able to distinguish which instrument is which in a mix that is not crushed to death to make it as loud as possible.
Apr 05, 2009 01:06 am proffesional heavy metal records like the end of heartache(killswitch engage),The ashes of the wake(lamb of god),Thrill seeker(August burns red) are super compressed and yet each instrument is crystal clear!
Wonder how they do it?
Apr 05, 2009 04:58 am nah, those guitars are not the sound of compression.
we're talking super charged rigs here man.
were talking kick *** heads slaved off other super charged heads with unecessary frequencies pulled right down.
then you got the awsome cabs they use to go with.
the object with recording is to track it as close as possible to the real thing.
too much compression just squashes the life and clarity not accentuates it. the sustain and clarity you here are the result of guitar mad enthusiasts.
and more than likely they are using more than 3 or four different rigs in a song.
not to mention whatever crazy mixtures of technonlogy they have found in their quest.
point is its before tracking they do all this, not as a result of mixing so much.
i think the word "compression" in the recording realm sounds like its more than it is.
Apr 05, 2009 05:14 am what i mean by that last comment is,
for me at least, the word compression, before i really knew what it was, and being a guitarist, sounded like it would make my guitars sound more "fat" and kick ***. but like anything, if you compress it too much it changes it.
as stated before, distorted guitars are already compressed by the nature of the wave.
if you were to use compression, it would be to compress the dB swing of heavy palm mutes. but now i think of it, would have to be out there for you to need to that, or if you were trying to get tape compression and were really pushing it.
compressing palm mutes too much will kill the effect of it anyway.
if you want "fatter" then you gotta layer the git tracks, which means ya gotta play tight.
if you want great clarity, tweak your amp or buy another rig. (which is expensive)
this is my understanding of things. please someone jump in im off.
Apr 05, 2009 10:49 am [quote]proffesional heavy metal records like the end of heartache(killswitch engage),The ashes of the wake(lamb of god),Thrill seeker(August burns red) are super compressed and yet each instrument is crystal clear!
Wonder how they do it?[/quote]
90% of every recording is the core sounds. Combine that with the (aggregate decades in most cases) experience of the production team and there you go.
Apr 06, 2009 01:47 pm how is an expander different from a limiter and when to use it?
Apr 06, 2009 04:47 pm An expander expands the dynamic range and a limiter limits it.
An expander is the opposite of a compressor - A compressor makes loud things quieter. An expander makes quiet things quieter. In the extreme, it's a noise gate.
A limiter is the extreme version of a compressor. A compressor allots less gain to louder signals. A limiter allots *no* gain over a certain threshold (in the case of a brick-wall digital limiter) or typically less than 10% of the gain increase (in the case of analog limiters).
Although, depending on who you talk to: To some, anything with a ratio over 10:1 is a limiter. To others, anything above 4 or 5:1 would be considered a limiter. A brick-wall limiter is pretty self-explanatory...
Apr 07, 2009 02:25 am how is an expander a noize gate if it makes quite things loud?
Apr 07, 2009 05:17 am Quote:
"An expander makes quiet things quieter."
You know, just like stretching a person would make his feet closer to the ground.
Apr 07, 2009 11:29 am Quote:
how is an expander a noize gate if it makes quite things loud?
It doesn't. It makes quiet things quieter. Set to an infinite ratio, it kills the signal (below the threshold) entirely.
You're playing a guitar and when you're not playing, you hear hiss from the amp. Say that hiss is at -40. You set your expander to -40 @1.1:1. Now that hiss is at -46. @2:1, -52. @10:1, probably completely below the available dynamic range.
Once the signal goes above that (-40) point, the expander stops expanding and allows the entire signal to go through.
Quote:
You know, just like stretching a person would make his feet closer to the ground.
Sort of like that, yes. If a person is suspended (as basically all signals are above the noise floor and below the "ceiling") and you want that low point (feet) to actually be closer to the ground (noise floor), then it's actually a pretty good analogy.
Apr 07, 2009 11:34 am let me get this straight.
an expander is a compressor with a low threshhold and infinity:1 ratio whereas a limiter is a compressor with a very high threshhold and large ratio!
right?
and yeah!how do you quote stuff?
Apr 07, 2009 01:09 pm A compressor has a ratio lower than a limiter. A limiter is a compressor with a very high (or infinite, in some cases) ratio. With "straight" compression, say you have a signal hitting -0dBFS. If you throw a compressor on with a threshold of -10 set at 2:1, it will allow 1dB of increase for every 2dB of signal over the threshold. So instead of the output signal being 10dB above the threshold, it would then be only 5dB above.
At 10:1, it would only increase *1*dB for every 10dB of signal. Instead of -0dBFS, the signal would be -9dBFS (basically, limiting).
With a brick-wall digital (infinite ratio) limiter, the signal isn't allowed to go above the threshold at all. That same signal would be stopped cold at -10dBFS (and sound like crap with 10dB of gain reduction).
An expander is the opposite of a compressor. A compressor works from the top down. An expander works from the bottom down.
A compressor reduces the level of the signal above a specific threshold -- An expander reduces the level of the signal below a specific threshold.
Quoting: (quote) blah blah blah (/quote)
But use [brackets] instead of parenthesis.
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