loudness question.

Posted on

giv me gear
Member Since: Jan 29, 2009

whnever i try to make my mix loud,it induces clipping.and whenever i compress the stuff and compensate for the loss in volume it sounds very scratchy.someone said don't compress guitar when mixing,someone said compress bass and what not.how to overcome this problem?

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 16, 2009 10:42 am

Don't make your mix as loud...or record each track leaving more headroom

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Mar 16, 2009 11:50 am

What DB said. As well, EQ plays heavily on this. If each instrument has it's space to reside and the mix is clear this helps overall loudness. If the EQ is bad then they will fight each other and the louder it gets the worse it will be. Mud is a big killer of loudness.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 16, 2009 11:51 am

Good point, learning to properly EQ instruments within a mix can play a lot towards loudness and headroom.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 16, 2009 05:46 pm

*********************************************************************************!

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Mar 16, 2009 07:13 pm

...and little throbbing blue vein under the skin of Noize's forehead finally bursts...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 16, 2009 08:57 pm

Was it really that LOUD that you heard it all the way over there?

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Mar 17, 2009 07:07 am

I heard it too. But I still had to hard limit it with a 20 dB gain boost to get it to sound like Metallica.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 17, 2009 03:48 pm

Very funny indeed Herb.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Mar 18, 2009 09:14 am

giv me some gud solution people.please!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 18, 2009 09:16 am

If your clipping you simply need to dial back the level, that isn't rocket science.

You may have simply recorded the original instruments too hot, can't fix that. Just re-record.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Mar 18, 2009 10:45 am

You're asking a very fundamental question about mixing here. There isn't any easy solution, especially with the very small amount of information you're giving us to go on. I understand that you're frustrated, but so are we since all we have to help you is a few cryptic, poorly-worded sentences.

Give us more information on your project:
- what all instruments do you have?
- what is your signal chain for these instruments?
- what all VST effects are you using?
- what have you tried so far to get your mix louder?

Things like that. More detail is better. Plus there is a TON of reading out on the web about engineering and mixing. There are a bunch of variables that come into play, a lot of which are under your control right from the start. Mic positioning, room acoustics, your mic selection, preamps, headroom/tracking levels, plus a bunch of post-tracking variables like EQ, effects, panning, compression...the variables are nearly endless.

It's just a matter of reading all you can and practicing what you read. You've obviously learned a bit since you first showed up here since you've gotten positive comments on your remix. That's good, that's encouraging. Improvement will be slow and steady, but keep at it. We can't fix your mixes overnight.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Mar 18, 2009 11:41 am

Quote:
giv me some gud solution people.please!


Being a persons who's forced to (usually under protest) bring projects to levels where they have no business being, I can tell you this:

A) Sheer volume should be an afterthought. Almost anything you do to "shoot for volume" will shoot you in the foot. Tracking too hot being the prime offender. Shooting for volume in the mix being an easy second.

B) The vast, vast majority of mixes don't have the potential to reach the ridiculous levels that people are trying to shoot for today. That includes the vast majority of projects that come in from commercial studios.

Recordings just aren't made to be at those levels. The gear isn't designed to handle those levels. Ears aren't designed to handle that sort of extremely limited dynamic range.

C) The listening public doesn't want those levels either. The "Volume War" is a pissing contest between bands & labels and other bands & labels. Recordings that are that hot sound horrible (in case you didn't notice).

D) The gear it takes to handle those levels with any sort of "style" is relatively rare stuff... The amount of usable headroom is some of it is obscene. The calibration of the chain is completely at odds with a typical tracking/mixing chain -- For instance: My tracking converters are calibrated to -20dBFS (and I more or less "pretend" they're at -24). The converters I use in the mastering chain are calibrated to -10dBFS.

That said - Only a fool would try to go to "war" volume with a -20 chain during the mastering phase. And I'm not sure what you'd call someone who'd use a -10 chain for tracking.

IN ANY CASE: The greatest mastering engineer on the planet, with the greatest chain and the most ridiculous amount of usable headroom will be limited by the mixes he's given.

Make mixes that can handle the abuse and you can abuse them. Short of that, it doesn't come easy...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 18, 2009 09:11 pm

The thing is if it sounds like crap and clips when you try and boost it, then that means the tracks are full of noise to begin with. Not trying to be a dick here, but the simple truth is that is were the clipping is happening. Your combined tracks add up to more signal, thus more noise. And no tools or pluggins in the world will fix that. You need clean track's with plenty of headroom to even begin thinking of setting a high ceiling on the limiter to pump up the volume.


Oh GEEEZ, there goes my vein again!

Deron Daum
Member
Since: Mar 11, 2009


Mar 18, 2009 11:20 pm

I agree that an over compressed & limited mix doesn't sound good. But we do need to get songs in the realm of volume that most modern releases are at.

What you might consider is that getting your mix loud is not so much a mixing issue at all. You can't turn up all of the faders to get a loud mix. You'll just have clipping. You need to keep all of your signals at a nice safe level throughout all of the signal chains. (Most effects allow you to modify levels - don't turn them up too much or you'll clip the next stage!)

If you have a good, clean mix and your drums and bass are not too loud, you can get loudness through compression and limiting on the master bus. This is basically "mastering at home". (You don't nee to do this if you are going to have your mix mastered.) There are tons of plug-ins specifically made for this such as Waves L1 (L2 & L3) and IK Multimedia's T-racks. You can make up all of the left over fader gain with these tools so you don't have to worry so much about loudness when mixing. You can also shave 8-12db of peaks off your mix and turn it up this much more. Again, the better your mix, the more you can squeeze the master bus. This comes with experience.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Mar 19, 2009 12:06 pm

Quote:
The "Volume War" is a pissing contest between bands & labels and other bands & labels.


What a great descriptive. I know that a few years from now when everyone's bladders are empty, there are going to be a LOT of engineers/masterers/musicians listening to their recordings from this period and saying to themselves,

"Jesus H., listen to that awful ****. Did we really think that was the right way to do it?"

Lessons learned too late at the expense of other people's ears.

What. Ever.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 19, 2009 08:45 pm

Most modern Release's????

Well, the decent ones I know of are not completely crushed to death with no life left in them. And that is exactly what is going on. I don't give a rip if its Brittney Spaniels newest release or whatever. They are completely crushed and it sounds like ****, end of story. There are no nuances and it all sounds like crap.

Herb, you are dead nuts on there with that thought.

Many will certainly look back, in disgust. I know a few engineer's and mastering folk who are now using fake names to avoid having to admit they took part in this crap.

Okay, deep breath. My vein is pulsing again. I need another Valium and a shot of Jag.

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