basic relatively cheap mic/sound card sudgestions (drums)
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Posted on Feb 18, 2009 07:43 pm
sirhc
Chris
Member Since: Aug 25, 2008
What is the best way to go about recording drums, and maybe the rest of my band?
Sorry for the super general question!
right now my rig doesnt have firewire, and i have onboard sound.
-dual core 3ghz
-a few empty pci slots
-matched 2 gig ram ddrII (4 gig total if i wrote that confusing)
Want to spend $400 at most
i have sonar 7 & fl studio, nothing else!
So il need mics (i use 2 toms, floor tom, snare, kick, hi-hat) and a few cymbals.
So will i need 1 or two over heads?
Thanks in advance!
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TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 19, 2009 10:33 am PJK has a point. For $400 you could get a MIDI controller, a sample library, and a VSTi host. I've been pretty impressed with even my modest controller and sample library. No complications of micing a kit, no phase issues, no worries about the horrid acoustics in my house, and the ease of editing a botched take.
But on the other hand, there's no substitute for the feel and techniques of a human drummer whacking real skins and cymbals.
If you do stick with real drums, 3 mics is a pretty minimal setup. 4 is a little better, but it still neglects the toms (namely the floor toms, I've found). But you can get very clear and present drum tracks with 3 or 4 mics. But you really need to be able to put them each on their own track in your software so that you can treat each separately. Its a lot easier to get a sweet kick and snare sound when you can gate and compress them individually.
The kick mic tends to be the most expensive. The ones that come with those budget drum mic kits have failed to impress me thus far. You could easily drop $250 just on a kick mic. Then around $80 for a dynamic mic for the snare and at least $150 for a matched pair of overhead mics. Then another $150 or more for an interface capable of taking 4 inputs, plus $100 or more for a mixer with at least 4 preamps. And those are mainly entry-level prices for all of those pieces of gear.
So you see what PJK means that $400 doesn't go very far with drums. Maybe sampled/sequenced drums are more up your alley until you get more funds together.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 19, 2009 11:22 am If you want to close mic your drums and have them on seperate tracks for mixing you would spend that $400 on mics alone for a cheaper setup (unless you found a bunch of 57's cheap).
You would need...
Kick
Snare
Toms x 3 (Although you could put one mic between the two rack toms, that works alright.)
2 x Overheads
As stated, a kick + 2 overheads may be a good starting point for you.
For mics, cables and an interface to split the signals you would easily be looking at $1000 for an entry level setup. Me for instance, I have $1000 invested in drum mics alone and none of my stuff is technically "high quality" although it's better than entry level.
I would say if you can get a good mix through a mixer to capture one track of all drums that could work.
My issue with that is I would want some compression and some outboard 31 band EQ's or a few bands of paraEQ to really make my drums sound how I want before capture, and I have none of those things. It all takes place in software after the fact, so splitting is a must for me.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 19, 2009 03:32 pm What i actually have been using is the rock band xbox 360 drums and my electric kit together (set up as if one set), with a program for each to convert the midi signals which is then routed to fl studio with ezdrummer, it works alright, just it sounds like your hitting the play button on each sound instead of making the sounds lol.
So i was kinda looking to start actually recording..
So $400 is kinda unrealistic? or would PJK's suggestions turn out to be "decent"?
and where would i place the samson c02's? is it really dependent on the room or is it relative to what drums?
thanks again!
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 19, 2009 03:36 pm Room, drums, all a factor. The 3 mic thing can produce great results but if you are recording say... a metal band, I doubt you would get what they are looking for. Rock, blues, jazzy, country would all work well with a 3 mic setup imo, actually just about anything but metal you would get acceptable results.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 19, 2009 03:48 pm I would say that it's pretty heavy. I would want to mic the whole kit with those tunes, just my pref though.
PJK suggestion is definitely an option and would probably produce very nice results. I just don't have the attention span to program drums.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 19, 2009 03:51 pm where can i find the specs on that mixer?, there wasnt much on that site,
edit*
nvm google worked better the 5th time:)
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 20, 2009 04:51 pm How does the mixer connect to my computer?
Sorry for the noobie question*
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 20, 2009 05:12 pm the mixer doesn't.
The mics plug into a mixer, because mics need preamp to boost MIC level signal up to LINE level signal. Then the LINE level signals get summed together (with the mixer faders) and sent out the main outputs to the computer. You'll connect a cable from the mixer outputs, through a cable converter (2 jacks on one end, and a single 1/8" stereo jack on the other), then to the PC inputs.
The C02 mics would need some real time in getting them to the *best* possible spot. Also, same with the kick / lower mic. I've done the B3 out front of a kit, and it captured a kit very well. I ended up using that track more than anything else I was using (snare, OH, etc).
It comes down to one of those trade-off things. If you don't have the $$$, then you need time and creativity. But if you're just starting out, then go with what works, and build from there.
I will say though, that getting a recording soundcard (like maudio 2496) will work much better than onboard sound. Better converters, better (lower) latency, and better stability. I know it's another 100$, but you may find one cheap, and it'll definately make your progress smoother.
(course, that's my opinion, but many here share it, me thinks).
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 20, 2009 05:18 pm I was actually hoping to get one, and i think i could spend around 100 for one.. any suggestions?, or is the one above your suggestion?... and what pc input? like a line in? or a mic in?
and im a little confused with that card..
Iv only ever installed sound cards that have like all the speaker connections, so you disable the onboard one... Do i still leave the onboard one enabled for my speakers?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 20, 2009 05:58 pm One what? mixer? interface? Both the ones I mentioned are well respected (mixer and soundcard).
The PC input would be either the RCA (or 1/4") inputs on an audio interface, or, it could be the 1/8" stereo line input on a consumer soundcard.
You're mentioning the consumer type soundcard: not at all recommended for audio recording tasks.
I would disable the onboard sound if you're putting a PCI card into your PC. On my laptop, I use a USB device, and leave the onboard active, but don't use it when using the USB device. If no usb device, then I use the onboard, for listening to music, etc.
I put a PCI card in my studio rig, and disabled the onboard sound right away. Everything I use comes out from the audio interface.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 20, 2009 06:05 pm yea sorry i was talking about the sound card
and i dont have anything in the way of moniters, but i have an adapter that converts the three 1/8" from my speakers to a red and white rca... can i connect the red/white rca to the red white rca out on that card?
and which outputs do i use on the mixer to connect to the rca inputs on that sound card?
Like whats it labeled? (you can click the pic for a close up)
thanks again for all the help!, i really appreciate it!
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 12:12 am and im in canada and zzsounds doesnt ship here... but i found everything for the same price on SW, except the samsun C02.. they were like 50 for 1 or 1 40 for 2.. im not sure why they were more expensive but the pair didnt come with stands.. any other trust worthy sites i can look at?
and does the B1 need phantom power?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 21, 2009 02:16 pm
The ap2496 puts out LINE level, not powered level from the outputs, so you would need speakers that have their own amps (computer speakers usually do) or you'll need some sort of power amp, then the speakers. If you're using computer speakers, that have their own power amp of some sort, then you can connect right to the outputs on the 2496.
To connect from mixer to interface, I believe you can use the REC OUT (recording out) which should be the summed of the channels. Or, you can connect from the STEREO OUT over to the L & R inputs on the ap2496. Stereo out is +4db, so it'll be louder than the REC OUT (which is -10db). Either one would work, just adjust for level, which you'd do anyway.
SW will have stands, so I'd just get them there. I do all my purchases at SW. I would suggest calling them and getting a sales engineer. This person will be your personal contact, and will give you discount prices, compared to the internet. I've gotten some real good deals.
The B1 will need phantom power, as it's a condenser mic.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 02:25 pm Thanks! I just wanted to know if i was gunna need some more cables, but i have lots of rca to rca.. So il use the rec out:)
Just a few more questions
Why are the two C02's $140 but a single one only $50? i cant figure it out
and for cables.. i just need three with xlr on both sides right?
NightcapVeni, MIDI, ViciMember
Since: Jul 02, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 09:12 pm Quote: Why are the two C02's $140 but a single one only $50? i cant figure it out
Most likely because they are "paired". Meaning in short that their specs match up. Something you'll appreciate when you start recording with those 2 mics at the same time.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 21, 2009 09:13 pm Well, I have never seen the Samson C02 sold as a single mic before so I would be wary of that one. They are sold as a supposed matched pair. I own a set of them and have found many uses for them While they are not supreme mic's they work just fine and sound very good.
The price is for a matched pair and that is pretty normal for that.
Here is a link to a page that has some places listed the have them as low as $99 for a pair.
www.google.com/products?q...=1&ct=title
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 09:42 pm I didnt know google had that!
Thats so smart!
i used it to find the b1 $10 cheaper with a free 25 foot cable!
Thank you!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 21, 2009 09:45 pm You've never used Google to search for something before?
Google is your friend.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 09:48 pm aha, good one;p
no the product search**
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 21, 2009 10:00 pm Google is my main search engine. All I did was a regular search and that's the result. No special search at all.
You can search for anything.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 10:32 pm wow, i guess iv never searched google for a product aha,
But when i search on google it brings me websites.. the link you sent me goes to this
www.google.com/products
which is what shows you the prices/places and everything and this is what i didnt know google had*
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 21, 2009 11:00 pm Ah, I see what your talking about now.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 21, 2009 11:59 pm ... so iv got my total to $470 + tax, shipping,handeling
thats from 4 different stores:\, 4 stands 2 cables + the cable with the B1 and the interface, mixer, mics
il order mon:)
Thanks again for all the help!
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 23, 2009 11:50 am Cool deal, can't wait to see what you produce.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 23, 2009 03:37 pm Alright, i found a store near me that would ship for free, plus its in canada, so id save alot.. Basically the same prices after conversion, but they dont sell the B1, and the guy i talked to sudgested an AKG D11, when i said $130 price range... any opinions on it?
or the Shure PG52 a little more money i think 170???
or stick with the B1? which i think canadian comes to 130 plus duty
reason im asking is becuase i was under the impression the B1 was to mic the kick.. but maybe im wrong?
Im talkin canadian now if they look expensive*
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 23, 2009 05:59 pm While the B1 can do the kick, you will get better results with the D11 or the PG52 indeed. So that was a lucky happening for sure.
While the PG52 is probably a bit better mic without question. The D11 is no slouch either. It is the little brother of sorts to AKG's D112 kick drum mic.
If you need to stick to your budget you won't be disappointed with D11 at all. Its a very good mic, and at that price you will find some other uses for it as well. Its very good on bass guitar cabs as well.
sirhcChrisMember
Since: Aug 25, 2008
Feb 23, 2009 06:12 pm alright thanks!, im placing the order now:D
total blew original budget away
but total will be 785 to the door, il have to get my parents to pitch ahah
thanks again for everything!
