added drums first time.

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giv me gear
Member Since: Jan 29, 2009

added drums from tabit and made some changes to masterwithbass.

www.homerecordingconnecti...ype=2&src=1

i knw it's not right but i need other's ears to tell me that.

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 17, 2009 07:04 am

You need to change up the velocity on the drums from hit to hit to add a bit a realism to it, as it is right now it does sound very robotic.

Having drums tho, does make a lot more sense of the music to me, still, not my style, but it does make more sense.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 17, 2009 10:09 am

how do i change the "velocity"?or do you mean volume?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 17, 2009 10:12 am

If you are programming those drums via MIDI, MIDI has a parameter called "velocity" which essentially is how "hard" the note is struck, so it does affect volume, but depending on the drum sequencer it could also result in using a softer sample hit as well.

When it's at the highest velocity of a drum roll it sounds like a machine gun, not very realistic, just varying them up a bit helps a lot.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 17, 2009 10:23 am

yeah i think tabit is MIDI.using some channel 10 or something.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 17, 2009 05:35 pm

It should have a note editor in which you simply either right click or work in a text like pain. Then under velocity you simply mover the value up or down. 0 being no sound and 127 being the loudest. Approx 64 is mid level.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 17, 2009 08:15 pm

thanks.i'll try that.but is the mix sounding heavy?

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Feb 17, 2009 08:24 pm

Sounds like a decent starting of something that could get heavy.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 17, 2009 08:27 pm

Hint of Primus there for only a second. But I smelled it indeed.

Possibly getting into the heavy zone, yes.

Needs more cowbell.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 17, 2009 10:22 pm

i'm soon going to get a metalzone pedal.so probably that would do the trick.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Feb 18, 2009 12:44 am

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

MetalZone SUCKS! DON'T DO IT!

If you want something "metal" get a Keeley modded DS-1. Better than anything Boss stock.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 18, 2009 09:47 am

The Metal Zone has a very cool feature that you don't find on pedals very often, which is a sweepable midrange EQ. That alone is worth getting one, but the distortion from those things sounds like a buzz saw. Very clipped, harsh distortion. Use it in conjunction with the distortion/overdrive from a good amp and it can sound pretty good though.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Feb 18, 2009 12:34 pm

Sorry Tad. But I will disagree with that pedal till the day I die. I tried for a week to get a good sound out of that thing... It made my Mesa Studio Pre sound like crap no matter how I set it up. :(

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 18, 2009 12:35 pm

DS1, greatest distortion pedal ever...especially when modded


http://www.interstatemusic.com/wcsstore/InterstateMusic/ims/ipf/EFFDS1.jpg


I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 18, 2009 02:59 pm

The Metal Zone works for Warren Haynes! But I'd bet that he keeps the drive down and just uses it for the 3-band semi-parametric EQ and a clean boost.

But one thing to the OP:
Don't think that simply adding a pedal with the word "metal" in its name is going to instantly give you heavier distortion. Its going to add distortion, that's for sure, but that's not really how you get a thick, heavy guitar tone. More distortion equals thinner, harder to distinguish guitars in a mix. It may sound heavier to you when you're playing alone in your room, but that won't translate to the recording very well.

Instead, keep your gain/distortion lower than you would when playing alone. Then double-track your rhythm guitar parts. Don't copy and paste, record yourself playing the same rhythm part more than once. Pan them pretty wide in the mix and maybe even apply different EQ to each take. Layered tracks with less distortion is going to yield a MUCH heavier tone than simply adding a distortion pedal to a solid-state amp.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Feb 18, 2009 04:34 pm

Second what Tad is saying. Less distortion when recording vs. live, yet doubled (or more if you are extremely tight) for uber thickness.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 18, 2009 06:43 pm

My first suggestion is rather then spend the money on a new pedal for yet more distortion. I would invest in a mic or audio interface to improve the recorded sound to begin with.

Not trying to be a dick here either. It is just a simple fact that the sound is not going to improve until you improve the input chain. That starts with the microphone you are using and moves on from there.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 18, 2009 08:15 pm

what if i need really heavy distortion like lamb of god and killswitch engage?id DS1 good for that?i'm not talking about only recording.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 18, 2009 08:24 pm

wouldn't know, don't listen to that and have no idea what kind it is...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 18, 2009 10:02 pm

Then you need the big expensive amps they use. The sound they get in those bands is not based around a stomp box at all.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 18, 2009 10:45 pm

there would still be a pedal that gives good distortion.just tell me how i can get a decent pedal?which pedal gives the most heavy distortion possible?

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Feb 18, 2009 11:18 pm

www.engl-amps.com

That's a good heavy distortion...

Again...

NO PEDAL WILL GIVE YOU THE TONE THAT IS WORTH RECORDING... And I wouldn't dare us it live either...

Member
Since: Dec 31, 2008


Feb 19, 2009 10:15 am

when i was like 14 and thought pedals were all that gave good tones i bought the electro harmonix metal muff anf its acctually a really nice pedal if you set it up right, ive got a ds-1 and the muff honestly has 4 times more gain than it so dont get carried away.

If u want killswitch sound your gonna need a bout 10,000 or atleast a valve amp and some understanding neighbours

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 19, 2009 11:01 am

Aah, the pang of realization that the guitar tones you hear on commercial recordings can't be replicated by a distortion pedal going through a budget solid-state amp. Its taken years, but I've finally got that through my thick skull.

Tinystride, just like these guys are telling you, heavy guitar tone comes mainly from tube amps that are designed for such tones. I can't profess to be an authority on contemporary heavy guitar tones, but I do understand that more distortion doesn't equal heavier guitars.

A good, high-gain tube amplifier would be the best starting block for heavy guitar tones. The Peavey 6505 and 6505+, Mesa Boogie multi-rectifier series, Engl, Diezel, Krank...they're mostly geared towards what you want to do. And more than likely those are the amp brands that these bands are using to generate the heavy tones you're after.

Plus those guys on the CD are pushing the power sections of those amps HARD. Their amps are very powerful, they're playing into cabinets with 4 12" speakers or more. Its very loud. That's what Ross meant above when he said you need some understanding neighbors. Or a power soak of some sort.

This is an important lesson. That's why we're being so persistent about telling you these things repeatedly.

But enough guitar 101. To address your question:

The DS1 is a good distortion pedal, but I doubt that it will satisfy your needs. The Metal Muff is probably a good bet though. But I've found that even a Tube Screamer (which doesn't even come close to heavy on its own) can make a tube amp sound nice and heavy when you're really pushing those power tubes.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 19, 2009 11:04 am

Yeah, if anyone ever studies the signal chain of some of those players, it's crazy, and at the end of it are usually boutique amps, or at the very least, totally customized name brand amps with special speakers and cabs and such...

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 19, 2009 11:17 am

Speaking of signal chains, a little googling turned these up:

Killswitch Engage:

Adam D:
www.digitalburn.org/adam-d-guitar-rig/

Joel Stroetzel:
www.digitalburn.org/joel-...age-guitar-rig/

Notice that they're both using Tube Screamer (or equivalent) for their pedal distortion. Those pedals aren't heavy by anyone's definition. But when coupled with their amps, they add sensitivity and texture without necessarily adding more distortion.

Lamb Of God:

[quote]
What were your signal chains for recording Sacrament?

Adler: We went direct into either a Line 6 Pod or an Amp Farm plug-in for monitoring purposes, and then we re-amped the clean signal through a Mesa/Boogie Mark IV or a Mesa/Boogie Stiletto into an Orange 4x12 cabinet. We also used a Tech 21 SansAmp. Most of the rhythm parts were done twice, and panned hard-left and hard-right.

What about your live rigs?

Morton: My guitar goes into a Sennheiser wireless, and then the signal is split with a Whirlwind A/B box into two separate dbx 166XL compressors, and two Boogie Mark IVs that are noise gated in the power-amp stage with Rocktron Hush Super Cs. Upfront, I use a Dunlop Zakk Wylde Signature CryBaby wah. Willie’s rig is similar, but he only runs one Mark IV.
[/quote]

They used a POD for monitoring, then reamped the dry signal thru a Mesa. But notice no pedals in their live rig. Just the distortion from the Mesa amps.

giv me gear
Member
Since: Jan 29, 2009


Feb 19, 2009 11:17 am

thanks.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Feb 19, 2009 11:31 am

Man, I have never dived into re-amping. I can monitor my line6 and record dry sooooo.... no reason not to.

I assume I run a line out into my amp (ampeg reverb rocket), crank it, mic it and let it re-record?

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 19, 2009 11:36 am

I think so. Although I'm not sure how an amp's input will react to a line-level signal instead of an instrument-level signal. You might be able to just adjust the preamp settings, or you might need some sort of D/I box to bring it back down to an instrument level again.

Nice amp, by the way. I've heard nothing but good things about that specific amp.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Feb 19, 2009 11:51 am

I'll start a new thread, I need to know about this.

And oh yeah, I love my ampeg and am stoked to have the head version so I can pair it with whatever speakers I want. 50W is totally crankable for that tube tone without being insanely loud. Plenty of volumne to gig at a "no-mics except vocals" venue, yet not to loud to crank when recording without pissing off the neighbors (too much).

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 19, 2009 07:14 pm

Tripps, yes that is how you do it.

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