OK another HRC ROLE CALL....USA, UK<?????

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Member Since: Feb 22, 2003

It looks like the decision has been made about war this week......No matter if you agree with the decision of war....Will you still stand and unite with position of the US. UK and Spain.....on getting rid of this monster Saddam......The decision has been made....who will unite....I will.......



Roughneck

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 07:01 am

I am in full support of our president, our troops and their mission. I am never happy to hear about war, but the sad fact is that in order to have peaceful resolutions, both sides need to want it, and Saddam has absolutely no desire for peace.

He must be removed from power.

Typo Szar
Member
Since: Jul 04, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 08:24 am

I guess, if we have to fight, mind as well do it well eh? Im thai, with US citizenship, i oppose war, but mind as well.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 08:52 am

One Hundred percent behind the troops! Been there done that. Bush is another seperate issue. Ole sonney is bit of a loose cannon. Hopefully his adisors can keep him contained a little. Back in you box Bushey! That's a good boy.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 09:00 am

While I do agree it seems that george dubbleya is getting kind of trigger happy, I am still in full agreement of where the barrel is aimed.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 09:18 am

Yup, certainly not in his shoes. Obviously don't have any idea what information he is working with and understand why I can't. Bottom line. If we're goin in..we're goin in! My experience is Nam. Public opinion got us out and It's my perspective that was a positive result. It also got a lot of our own killed as it put us in a totaly defensive only mode. I don't know how we have gathered so many fag people in the US that have never experienced conflict beyond what color socks to wear, and strugling with what "statement" they "need" to make with their atire. It baffels me.

bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


Mar 17, 2003 02:02 pm

You see, war is a dangerous game to play. The less you play, the better. So with that in mind, I say first off if we can help it, we don't go in. Second off, if we must go in (and apparently we are no matter how much I rant and rave), let's handle business. Jump in, do what we need to do as quick as possible, jump out. Prolonged conflict in places far from home has many costs indeed.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 02:48 pm

I agree with your thoughts, but honestly, I see absolutley no way of resolving this without force, and honestly, of all the peace marches and crap, I have yet to hear one realistic opinion of how any of them recommend going about it without force.

There is no other way to get him out of power, but by force. And he DOES need to be out of power, he is a danger to himself, his people and our world.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 03:15 pm

The only way around force is to ignore it-- and that will only worsen things.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Mar 17, 2003 05:15 pm

I wonder what sort of funeral they will give the Iraqi children that are slaughtered by US weaponry.

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 06:00 pm

Probably the same funeral Saddam would give them when he slaughtered them for something serious like not showing up to an anit-US march or something...which he would do...

OK, that was cold, but true. I feel bad for all the innocents that will die...it is a sad, sad situation. Saddam could prevent the whole thing by leaving...but we all know that won't happen, he doesn't care about his country or his people.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Mar 17, 2003 06:59 pm

Okay, here's a few facts for you.

1) Saddam was trained and paid by the US CIA and other government agencies. Most of the actions that he launched against other countries were in US interest, and the majority of weapons used had 'Made in USA' stamps on them. The 'claimed' WMDs that are in his possesion are mostly of US origin (VX gas for example was invented in the US, same with nukes, and every other 'WMD' that's on the list, so don't argue they got it from someone else, ultimately, they got it from the US)

2) Iraqi belief systems prevent Saddam from leaving. He would rather die to protect his country and his people than run away and be seen as a coward by all his people. Not everyone in the world is like US citizens, other cultures do exist and work differently than the largely christian population of the US.

3) The last 3 presidents of the US have all launched attacks against Saddam, all fell short of what there supposed 'goal' was, which was to 'free' and 'protect' the people. Nothing was gained, only lost. Both Korea, and Vietnam were attacked for similar reasons, if you remember, with the same sort of 'skirting' of issues, a whole lot of nothing came out of those as well...

4) All the reasons given for this war (WMD's, axis of evil, religious fanatics, etc.) could easily be turned right around on the US, not to mention dozens of other countries MUCH more at fault, including thos that the US government provides weaponry and money to. (Read Israel)

5) NONE of this, absolutely NONE of this has anything to do with the terrorist attacks of 9/11, nor the Al Queda network, nor muslim extremists.

6) The war on Afganistan continues, nothing has been achieved there except the deaths of innocents (not to mention my friends), and the fueling of more fires (revenge by the sons of the fathers killed, which is part of the culture). Nor has the 'alliance' achieved anything for the people native to the areas. If anything, their freedoms have been further limitted!

7) The US governments thirst for oil has fueled many wars, one still ongoing in the congo. The US government has now announced that they are going to rape the last largest wildlife sanctuary they got for as much oil as they can get (Read Alaska).

8) Korea has no oil, but they definately got WMD's, definately have committed crimes against their own people many times over, and have stated intent on attacking the US if the US acts against others...

9) One other 'benefit' of war is increased economy (not), rather increased popularity of leadership. You could buy 60 million (very well built) homes for US families with the cash the US government is spending on 'freeing' people in another country.

I realise that alot of you may not be old enough to remember alot of this stuff, but history does NOT favor this war!

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 08:10 pm

I am old enough to remember much of what you speak of...and believe your statements above, but it really does not change my mind one bit. I really don't care if this is related to 9/11 or not, nor do I care it's impact on economy (only looong wars have helped an economy that I recall).

I think Saddam is an evil person and runs an evil, totalitarian regime, whether imploying US people or not, and I don't believe he is somebody that should be in power.

Do I believe all the mud that Bush is slinging? No, but I believe the bottom line, which says Saddam should be gone.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Mar 17, 2003 08:17 pm

Well, let's say the Canadians, Germans, or Australians, believe Bush should be gone. Does that give them the right to blackmail you (the people of the US) with the threat of war, or go in and blow the US up to get rid of Bush?

If so, then, what's going to stop Korea from following through with their 'If USA attacks Iraq, we will launch a pre-emptive attack against the USA'?

If Saddam is so hated by his people, think about this; There is millions of them, and only one of him! They could easily take him down! (Just as easily as your own presidents and politicians have been assasinated for lesser reasons, by your own people)

Lastly, the US government tried THREE TIMES (over 13 years) now to 'oust' him from power (meanwhile killing thousands of innocent people), after PUTTING HIM IN THAT POSITION! What makes you think things will be different now, and that it will work now?

The US government is going to bomb Iraq, with weapons that don't descern from innocent or not, they kill anybody in their way. How is that not terrorism? Wouldn't you be terrified if you lived in Iraq? Stats put it at a 1/10 chance that you'd be killed or maimed in the first week of US attacks.

'evil, totalitarian regime', that's what about 60% of the world populous refers to the US as, due to actions such as this! Bush summed it up quite well 'Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists'. Well, I'm not with his policy, guess I should be killed.

Sad.

W.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 17, 2003 09:19 pm

I wont say anything about the war thing, I will just wish the best of luck to our friend hear at the forum, Geoff.

Best of luck dude, keep your head down, and most of all, come home safe.

Peace

Noize 2 U

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 12:00 am

It's gonna play out. We are going in. That's cast unless some miracle takes place where Sadam and family boogies, which is not likely. As far as past sins on the part of the US, ya maybe we will have a price to pay. It's time to get into today. Do our best to support those who are directly involved. Yes, the inocents, the troops on both sides; of many are inocent! Yes we claim that oil belongs to the world, but I don't see us breaking our butts getting into Kahasaksan. I've been there with people. People with feelings, warmth, human. They are very cold and hungry right now while we can't live without that SUV! Most of our peace protesters will march right on by the homeless person in the street without giving a nichel. So just where is this moral high ground?

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Mar 18, 2003 02:51 am

How about you come to the peace rally we're holding up here? $10 ticket, 6 Bands, all proceeds going to the homeless shelter.

April 26th, Mac Hall, starting around 6PM

Too funny you mentioned it ;)

Not a single person claimed moral ground either way here. The only immorality I see is killing innocent people for the wrong reasons, whether it be my people, yours, or theirs.

W.

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 04:26 am

hay thanx for the support Noize , I'll try and keep you all up to speed on what goes on , and try and send out some "desert music" .

" you can have my guitar after you pry it out of my cold dead hands ."

thought you needed a little humor in this , I'm not too worried about where ever i go . As for my oppinions on the good ol commander in cheif , it's already been said by most in this and many other forums , i agree with walt , DB, and noize mostly ,I may disagree but I do have my job.

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 04:31 am

man it's late , that last post just rambled and made about no sence at all. hahahah

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 07:40 am

God be with you Geoff, and with all the troops.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 09:39 am

Sorry Geoff, Let myself be baited into a place not worth going. Yes, God's speed!, whatever part you play. Sometimes I think the countries like Germany that require a service period for all is not a bad idea. There are just some things that can only be understood via experience. My niece Cornal Gretchen Cadwallader is now in the pentagon and has devoted her life to the safety and well being of soldiers. A lot more involved than making sure the OSHA regs are filed in the right place!

Waldo,

Sorry have to pass. I am booked here in MI with fundraisers through the end of the year. I will pray for yours. Hopefully no drunks kill any inocents as a result of the event.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Mar 18, 2003 03:06 pm

Geoff,

I'm not going to say 'god be with you' because in all my studies in religion, god isn't going to take sides, especially not in a political battle.

Shoot only if shot at and aim true, watch your own ***. If your friggen commander tells you to do something you don't agree with, don't friggen do it. And if they give you hell for it, tell them to refer to Bush's recent 'ultimatum' speech.

Come back in one piece, and try and leave others the same way.

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 05:58 pm

Whether God is taking sides or not, he is watching over the situation...he watches over ALL situations. It doesn't take much religious study to know that...

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 06:39 pm

Here here DB! May the God within you guide you in your travels, thoughts, and actions. And my God, listen to your officers! They are there to get you through it and home again! And my God, don't stand there and wait for the oponant to shoot first in battle! Oh and don't try to organize a mass hand holding session singing Kum By Ahhh. They don't know the words!

Now I've heard everything!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 10:00 pm

Cheers to that Walt. And for sure do stay in touch Goeff, we wanna be kept up to date. Ya cant trust the media around here, but I know youll give us the staight poop. And God yes, keep yerself tidy and outa trouble. And may God help ya keep the sand outa yer britches.

Peace

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Mar 18, 2003 11:58 pm

It's kinda funny how the media depics all of us Military members as M-16 toating , grunts. To clear it up a bit there are a lot of Ground troops , but there are so many other peole that don't pick up weapons , not saying anythings wrong with either or but I thought I'd clear at least what i do . My job is one of thoughs that has us on call to go any where and every where , to make things simple , I do everything a normal airport does but for the Airforce , from cargo to people we are getting the toops off and on the plane , I do more computer work than anything , not to down play the AF but we are not a fighting unit . I may end up in a @##$ hole but I have Army and Marines serounding me and my boyz . I just thought I'd say something on this because I feel like I'm being address as more than I really am , I will pick up a weapon but I really don't want to and to be all honest don't think I'd even get the oppertunity if i wanted it . But thanks for the support everyone , and I'll keep you all up to speed on what is really going on in what ever region i end up in .

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Mar 19, 2003 01:55 am

I found it interesting about the whole "God be with you" line and waldos response. I'm not christian, but I study religion and because of that I've seen one thing about the Christian God. That is that he has carried out several wars in his name and has killed thousands of people for the ultimate good. Because fo that I think it's a fair statement to say "god be with you" to our armed service. I don't agree with every aspect of this war, and I'm scared to death that as a result of it other countries will attack the US and that we will see more bloodshed in our own front lawns. I pray every day that this be a swift movement and that it be the will of whatever greater being is out there.

I believe that everything must pay the price for it's actions. Iraq is now paying thiers, one day, maybe soon the rate things are going, the US is going to pay theres. This country needs a massive change. Look in the bible, look at what God did to Sodom and Gomorah because of how they lived. If you believe in God you had better believe that we need to change a lot of things.

I'm not an anarchist, I'm a patriot, and as such I think that a revolution of the american people is called for, to fix what is wrong with our country.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 19, 2003 04:34 am

Geoff,

Glad to hear that you are in a support unit. And carefull making fun of us old Army farts, hehehe. Truth is even what was the "grunt" is now a relitively sophisticated operative in many cases. Even in my day, I was part of StratCom and worked with all US and Allied forces. I trained for a year before they would let me go do something. hehehe I guess you being in the millitary embodies an opertunity for me to show to the best extent that this US Citizen supports our millitary personel. To be honest, I got very concerned at some of the infered "guilt trips" that I preceived in this thread. There are those in the millitary as you must know that can not entertain "guilt trips" as a split second of indecision can cause severe injury or death. I pray this is not the intent of the author, but nievity can kill as effectively as intent.

Loki,

I think I agree with you. The US public has been voting and acting with their pocket books for far too long. It is my contention that "we" have systematicaly pushed our responsiblilties on the government(s), national, state, and local. They raise our children, police the length of our lawns, decide where and when we can pray, and on and on. We asked them to. The word revolution carries too many violent connetations for me to use with any confort level. I do advocate involvement and acceptance of personal responsiblilty as a method of positive change. This should make sence to even the folks that vote with the pocket book, as there is no more expensive way to achieve anything than put in the hands of government. Government agencies with nothing to do loose funding and fade away, just the way they faded in. There is plenty for all of us to do right in front of our noses. From speaking honestly about our thoughts rather than just agreeing to make things easy, to taking time for our children and each ohter, to mowing our own damn lawn. And with all that said, it is also the only thing I can do.

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Mar 19, 2003 05:31 am

walt,
after re-reading what i wrote ,(it was kinda late) I can see where you thought I might have come off a little wrong. I'm not down playing anyone that serves , I respect all service men and women ( even the grunts :P ) . As for the guilt trip thing, I do not entertain nor wish to enduce any type of idea . I have brand new airmen that i have to lead and durring these times these 18 and 19 year old don't need to worrie about and hear that they are taking part in immoral acts. My key to getting though these times are to remember my experiance , know the danger's but don't dwel on them, keep a cool calm heas , think about home ( my music) , keep on the task at hand and try and use a little humor in the mix , because all you have out there is each other , no CNN , or Talk radio , just you and your fellow seervice men and the knowlage that you all are in the same situtation as the next guy . It's an interesting experiance an eye opener for most , some people find religion, others a better knowlage of there selfs , and if nothing else have some cool and alot of times funny storys to tell when you get home . I take my hat off to all who have been part , are part and to who who support thoughs who are in the military , but the ones people forget , the people who make a large contribution , the Fam's , mothers , father , wifes , children all of such are the one htat deserve credit.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 19, 2003 06:15 pm

You might not have CNN and the like. But ya still got us here at HRC.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 19, 2003 10:19 pm

No, Geoff, I took no offence to the term at all. And I know you ment no negitivity by it. It is a simple accepted term today. I just admire the changes that have occured in such a short time. The millitary is a much more professional organization than when I was in.

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