1st Mic and pre suggestions???

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Member Since: Oct 22, 2008

I've been reading threads for a year now, and realize that some gear is subjective. I really need help, guys/gals.

I make music out of pure passion; no profit.

Running protools 7.4 w/ 002 rack.
Monitors: Event 8's (all mogami cables)
Home Studio with "poor man's" wall treatment.
App: Gospel/R&B vocals

it's time for a pre and mic. (buget under $1k)

FYI, I don't buy "cheap" gear. I also understand that equipment is only as good as its weakest link.

Mics: color vs flat means very little to me, at this point 'cause I haven't been able to audition either.
Based on opinions from YOU GUYS, I'm leaning towards NTK / NT1000. What do think??

Pre: leaning towards P-solo vs the colored RNP. Yea??

What concerns me is that mostly every thread I've read speaks highly of NTK (for the price/quality/versatility).. yet I read that tubes have consistancy issues (i.e. Warmth).

So an NTK with a P-Solo isn't wise???

Please, your inputs are very much appreciated.

Thanks

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MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 22, 2008 12:02 pm

If I had to put together a "desert island chain" for vocals under $1k, there is no question, no doubt, no concern of consequence -

A Shure SM7b through a True Systems P-Solo.

I wouldn't argue with a Grace Design 101 either. Or the RNP for that matter. All three excellent units.

Flexible, easily "professional quality" (yes, it's a buzzword, but I guess it's applicable), able to hold its own against vocal chains 5-10x the cost.

The only thing it might not measure well with would be very instrumental vocals (think classical, opera) where you'd generally want more distance and 'space' in the signal. You might have better results with a condenser in those cases. Although just last week, I was tracking a mezzo-soprano against a 60-piece orchestra and wound up using a 58 on her (she wanted to be 'in the mic' and I wasn't going to argue with her).

Funny part - I was looking at my 7b on the way out the door and thought "No, I wouldn't end up using that for her..." Next time, I'll go with my gut. The 7b would've been *perfect* for that application (as I had to pull out the more invasive presence peak in the 58 anyway).

Anyway - 90% of the time, the 7b is in the front. Whisper, scream, rock, metal, etc. No matter the price, one of the greatest vocal mics ever designed. And if your room isn't up to spec, it'll be your best friend also.

Quote:
What concerns me is that mostly every thread I've read speaks highly of NTK (for the price/quality/versatility).. yet I read that tubes have consistancy issues (i.e. Warmth).


Get one thing straight right out of the box -- "Tubes" and "warmth" have little to nothing to do with each other. That's marketing hype more than anything else.

That said - I would never (ever, ever) recommend a tube piece of any kind as a keystone unit.

Tube gear (whether microphones, preamps, EQ's, power amplifiers, transports, compressors, etc., etc.) are something you "add to a collection" later. Not what you want to rely on day-to-day.

"Cheap" and "Tube" (a.k.a. "toob") in one sentence usually leads to "Crap" in the next - Most of the goofy starved-plate stuff out there, you could probably replace the tube with paper clips in the socket and wind up with the same thing. In many of those cases, the "toob" is there for marketing hype. "Real" tube gear tends to be (A) rather pricey and (B) rather touchy. "High maintenance" (or at least "high attention") stuff that requires frequent calibration and tweaking.

And "Warmth" --- Tell almost any Neve, Amek, Great River, API, Langevin, Crane Song - pick a preamp known for its "warmth" and try to find a tube. Tubes do not equal warmth. Tubes (at least, "real" high-voltage, etc.) DO equal HEAT - But that's another story...

** Not that many tube preamps aren't known for 'warmth' Manley for example -- Still, that has less to do with the tubes and far more to do with the tasty and wonderful transformers in the signal path.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Oct 22, 2008 01:10 pm

I have been wanting one of the mentioned pre's for some time now. The RNP is right in my range although I would like the Grace 101.

If going the Rode route, I can vouch for my K2, I love that mic. I found it for $500 on ebay.

I have seen MM talk about this Shure mic a few times now and I am quite curious to hear one. Too bad I am in Alaska and never have that option :) I would probably pick one up if I can find a good deal though.

MM, is the SM7b that much better than the straight SM7? I've been looking for something to "ask" for around Christmas time and I think a new all around mic would be a good "suggestion".

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 22, 2008 02:35 pm

I don't think they've made the SM7 in - Geez, it's been some years -- The 7a had a better coil and I think the 7b tweaked the mounting yoke and the windscreen or something goofy like that.

Long story short, if you're looking at a SM7, it's very likely that it's a 7b. If it's a 7, it's old and still wonderful, but a little noisier. If it's a 7a, it might slip on the yoke, but it'll sound the same as the 7b.

Worth its weight in gold, IMO.

I keep seeing this sort of "best kept secret" stuff about the 7b... No idea where it comes from. You can't walk into a studio anywhere in the world that doesn't have a 7b, RE20 or both - Probably under a dust-cover because they get used so much that it's not worth putting them away. There's nothing secret about the 7b (and I don't want to leave the RE20 out either - both are freakishly wonderful vocal mics).

Although admittedly, until recently anyway, it seemed to be a secret kept from people at Guitar Center... I needed a few 7b's a couple years ago and went to GC to get them. I asked "Can I have three SM7b's?" and the guy had no idea what I was talking about. "SM57?" he says... "No - SM7 - 7b. You know - One of the two most popular vocal mics of all time? Black - Windscreen about the size of a football? SM7b?"

Long story short, they didn't carry them at the time for some reason. I think Shure was too busy pushing other lines and leaving the "core" mics alone - Big mistake, IMO... Sure, every studio already had one (or two). Every radio & TV station already had one or two dozen (for broadcast purposes, there are no equal to the 7b & RE20).

Heck - I run a mastering facility and I keep a 7b here.

Member
Since: Oct 22, 2008


Oct 22, 2008 02:46 pm

MM, Thanks for setting me straight on several fronts. Your soloist situation is kinda funny, to me.
I tend to joke around, from time to time, and there's something I say during phone conversations that ALWAYS provokes a defensive response (100% of the time). I can only imagine, in that structured environent, with that mezzo soprano of yours.. the look on her face.. had you chimed in with a serious tone, "Ma'am, will you PLEASE get your LIPS.. ..OFF the microphone!!" I would lose it, 'cause I can just see her face and hear her defensive rebuttle.
My bad; I just love a good laugh!!
MM your reply was thorough and awsome!! It helped me with understanding concept. Thanks, a million !!

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 22, 2008 02:58 pm

Freakish situation - She actually asked for a windscreen (thank God, as I was about to suggest one anyway).

I've worked with more opera and Broadway vocalists than I can count - I don't think I ever remembered one asking for a windscreen. They're usually taking them off or moving pop-filters to the side ("oh, I can't concentrate with that there") or some other goofiness.

But this gal was on here game -- "I suppose we can just go with a 58, but you'll need to roll out a little 400 and 12k and maybe just give it a whisker of 4, 4.5 or so..."

Most of them are more like "Oooh! Is that a U87? That'll be fine."

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 22, 2008 06:41 pm

I don't really have much to add other then a second on the P-Solo. Very simple and perfect for the price.

I am still chuckling though on the wet mic thoughts. That is one of my pet peaves for sure. The two worst things are those that think they need to swallow it whole, and the spitter's. I have absolutely no problem stopping them dead in their tracks if they even come close to touching my mic's. Even the cheap ones! I usually run a test with a piece of junk to see what their mic technique is. Then if they are one of those 2 classes, they a: get the lecture on not touching or getting closer then 6 inches from my gear or b: I feed them a spoonful of peanut butter to prevent them from spitting on my gear.

Member
Since: Oct 22, 2008


Oct 22, 2008 09:49 pm

pennut butter.. LoL!!

I think I will go with a p-solo.

Any thoughts on the 110/610 ?

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 23, 2008 12:00 am

Audio sample #2 on my "Audio Samples" page: www.massivemastering.com/html/audio_samples.html

Real peanut butter. Through a SM7b if I'm not mistaken... I wasn't at the session, but I heard some pretty messy stories...

Member
Since: Jul 10, 2007


Oct 23, 2008 04:12 pm

the NTK is a nice mic, but as has already been said, not all purpose in any way... I used it on very specific types of voices and instruments.

I've heard nothing but wonderful things about the SM7... its a large diaphragm dynamic and I've used similar mics on vocals plenty of times (Sennheiser 421 and AKG D112 particularly). Depending on how quiet your recording rooms are, the AT40XX mics (I've mostly used the 4050 or 4040) are pretty decent all purpose large diaphragm condensers (though if you've got any noise happening in the background, its going to pick it up).

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 23, 2008 05:41 pm

While I really like both the solo 110 and solo 610 I have to honestly say the for the price the P-Solo would still be my choice.

I've used UA gear over the years but am more into the conservative side now.

I guess if money is no object the 610 would be the choice between the 110 and 610.

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