Is there a standard order for applying the normal effects to vocals?

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Music Afficionado
Member Since: Aug 12, 2008

I record mainly vocals and usually only use reverb, EQ and compression. Other than those 3, I will occasionally use an beat based echo or certain generic filters, i.e. to emulate a telephone receiver.


Should compression be the last thing done? And if so, is there any better order for reverb and EQ (or the echo and filter I mention above)?

Logically it seems that you would eq first, reverb second and then compress all but I'm sure the folks on here know a better answer. Thanks.

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MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 14, 2008 06:58 pm

*Generally* -- You want to have spectral correction first and dynamics second (and possible spectral tweaking after).

On the verb - It depends on where you're sending it from. It can be pre-fade, post-fade, pre-insert, post-insert -- It depends on what you're shooting for.

Typically, post-insert/post fade is fairly typical for spatial effects (verb, delay). But modulation effects could be another story. And no doubt, pre-fade/pre-insert verb can be the coolest effect in the world when used creatively.

Music Afficionado
Member
Since: Aug 12, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 10:00 am

MM - Thanks for the reply. Can you break down spectral, dynamics, fade, insert, and modulation in laymans terms when you get a minute? I think I could pick the right choice on a multiple choice test but just want to make sure. Thanks!

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 11:36 am

Spectral as in the timbral qualities - Things you would adjust with EQ.

Dynamics concerns the volume vs. the dynamic range (the loudest to the quietest) - Things you would use a compressor, limtier or expander for.

Modulation -- Chorus, phase, flange -- Things that actively change the phase coherency and pitch.

Spatial - Reverb, delay and the like. Things that affect the apparent space by generating reflections.

Insert is an insert. Putting something in the path of the signal *GENERALLY* reserved for EQ and dynamics. Things you want to *change* the signal.

Aux sends would be for things you'd want to *add* to the signal - Verb, delay, modulation effects - Things that you'd rarely want to use as on an insert (for several and various reasons).

The routing - Pre-fade (before the fader), post-fade (after the fader), pre-(name it), post-(name it), etc., makes all the difference after.

A verb send for instance - If it's pre-fade, you could turn the fader all the way down and the verb would still be getting 100% of the signal - You'd wind up hearing the verb by itself. Very rarely done, but useful occasionally. Same with modulation effects. EQ you'd want pre-fade - and usually dynamics - Although I tend to go post-fade with dynamics frequently so the more *I* push something, the more is fed to the dynamics processor. But "for the most part" you'd want the processor digging in the same amount no matter where the fader is.

Routing the signal chain is the same way -- You don't want a thwumpy guitar tone feeding a compressor if you're going to roll off the low thwumpies - The compressor will react to the pre-EQ signal. So *generally* (again, just generally), corrective EQ first then (if any) dynamics, then (if any) shaping EQ, then sends.

Subgroups will work in the same manner -- If you route all your drums to a subgroup, you can turn all the drums down in the mix - but any auxiliary mixes (such as those feeding the reverb) will stay up unless they're part of that subgroup (most of the time, it won't be as the same verb processor is probably being used on other elements of the mix). That gives you access to typical "tricks" like fading the drum level during parts which leaves the verb at the same pre-sub level. I almost always faded groups 6-8dB or so (at the end of a song or the start of a fade-out) before fading the master down just for that reason - As the mix got quieter, it would also be "more distant."

Even the routing on the sends is going to determine what happens -- I almost always have a compressor with a reverb. But the song will determine whether I want to compress the aux going into the reverb or compress the reverb itself. Compressing the signal going into the verb is a simple shortcut -- The quieter parts of a song -- Less signal, less signal going to the aux and ultimately the reverb.

I tend to like *more* reverb during quieter passages where there's "more room" for it -- So if you compress the aux send *before* the verb, the louder the mix gets, the less reverb there is (and less to clutter up the louder parts of the mix). The mix backs off, the reverb actually gets more signal (or at least, relatively more as opposed to the louder passages) and the reverb is allowed to "blossom" more during those quieter parts, only to automatically back off a little when the louder parts kick in again.

Compressing the verb on the other hand, makes the verb tails stronger and longer on its own. You can make the verb "pump" -- I feel old, but think Metal Chruch's "Gods of Wrath" reverb - Every drum hit had an identifiable return (not like an aux return, but like a ricochet) -- A big "pa-CAH" that was partly due to the pre-delay on the verb, but mostly due to the verb being smooshed down at every hit and then quickly allowed to blossom between the hits.

Okay - Checked iTunes - Don't bother with Gods of Wrath, but the song Metal Church has it to some extent also - You can hear the snare hits push the verb back (along with a pre-delay) and then blossom up on every hit - as opposed to Badlands which has a pretty typical (for the time) SPX90 plate.

Anyway - Routing order is going to play a pretty big role in vocal (or anything) processing. You just have to think through the process before you start the processing. And as much as I feel like I've been typing, this is hardly scratching the surface...

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Oct 15, 2008 01:01 pm

Hehe, you busted out metal church. That album with Wastelands on it was fantastic :)

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Oct 15, 2008 02:03 pm

Memories... = )

Music Afficionado
Member
Since: Aug 12, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 02:34 pm

Thanks SO much for the reply!

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Oct 15, 2008 04:00 pm

Excellent post MassiveMaster, excellent.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 05:15 pm

Gracias. I might have to tweak that one and put in on the blog some time... It comes up here and there...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 15, 2008 08:49 pm

He said thwumpies.

It is a good word for that.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 09:15 pm

I could have trademarked that word when "And Justice for All" came out...

Geez... Those guitars... "Thwumpies" all over the place. It was frotzed with thwumpies.

"Frotzed" wasn't mine though... But I like it a lot. Whenever I have a technical glitch during a session, I say that "the disgronificator is frotzed" and they tend to not ask anything...

Unless that's what's causing all the thwumpies.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 15, 2008 09:33 pm

I'll have to use thwumpies tomorrow while visiting a buddy tomorrow while Ray is at guitar lesson's. He is a guitarist who will appreciate the word for sure.

Veni, MIDI, Vici
Member
Since: Jul 02, 2008


Oct 15, 2008 10:40 pm

Good post MM!

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