Professional sounding guitars! HELP!

Posted on

Member Since: Sep 25, 2008

Ive just been out and bought what I consider to be a good setup for recording rock and metal at home. A BOSS BR1600CD multitrack and a Line6 POD 2.00. But Im actually having real trouble getting a great sound onto my tracks. We play lots of different stuff ranging from straight up classic rock through power metal and thrash to black and death metal. We really want to get some decent recordings made. Im basically after advice on what makes "that kind of sound" that you hear on records by people like lamb of god, in flames, metallica, skid row, bon jovi, arch enemy, emperor, etc. I know im only a learner but I really wanna get my head around this. I always use the POD direct into the Hi-Z input on the desk without any other processing. Guitars range from Ibanez, Kramer, Switch, Shine and Gould.

[ Back to Top ]


Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Sep 25, 2008 08:19 am

If you figure it out, let me know. I've had terrible luck with my 2.0. I got something passable one time, long ago. I don't remember how. Something very serendipitous with levels, I think.

The PODS seem to have unrealistic high end. All digital modeling I've ever tried seems to.

in flames has tightly controlled high gain guitar, right? i'd create two similar patches with the intent to record the guitar parts twice and then pan them left and right. the patches will have to have scooped mids (if i remember the in flames sound, but it's been a while.)

pick a high gain amp (the rectified or another high gain probably) and a cabinet. when you pan through the cabinet options, specifically listen for one that provides a bassy thump--but not in an overbearing way. audition the cabinets by palm muting as you cycle through the options. a quick, controlled, jabby palm mute sound is what you need. next go to the pod's dials and kill or lower the mids. on a real amp you'd then raise the highs and the bass, but on the pod i think it's unwise to go past one o'clock on the highs. the pod just can't do highs. i don't know if it's possible to get the right kind of thump on the pod in the bass, but try to accentuate the cabinet's bass by playing with the bass dial as well as the mid and treble dial.

you will need to use compression to make the guitar sound tight. pod has compression, but if you have an external compressor, hook the pod up to that instead and just use that. if not, use the pod effect 'compressor' or 'delay and compressor' and make it a pretty short delay by hitting the tap button rapidly. then use the effect knob to dial in the compression. i guess the more the better, so crank it to the right.

then do the same thing again for your second guitar patch, but this time use either a different amp or a different cab. make it sound similar but either bassier or more trebly--but not by much. you want one of each, a bassier sound and a more trebly one. just make them different enough to be noticeable. on one of them you might want to use a slightly longer or shorter delay, or use a short reverb instead.

record the guitar parts twice, once using each patch. pan one to the left and one to the right in your standalone machine.

i just quickly listened to reroute to remain. the bassier guitar is the left ear in that song. and the bass guitar is actually slightly more dominant on the left side too. the vocals seem centered in the mix. the drums seem evenly panned too, so the kick is in both ears. there is a shortage of bass on the right side, but somehow this all balances out, surprisingly. the space created for the crunchy guitar by the lack of bass on the right really works, probably because the drums are centered.

if you discover any tricks, let me know.


Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Sep 25, 2008 11:04 am

One thing I've picked up while tweaking away at my FlextoneIII(esentially a PODxt stuck in a 150w amp), is to go to Line6s site, and download already tweaked tones out of their custom tone bank . They have hundreds that were made from their peeps, as well as from users that upload their own . Some aren't what they are cracked up to be, while others have had me saying 'how did they get THAT tone ?'. I'm able to hook the amp up to the computer via midi cables(just like a POD), and tweak the amps settings, then save them to load into a position on a control board, rename them, etc... This have saved me alot of time, and some of the tones I picked up are quite usable . Between the direct input sound of the amp, and the mic'd cab I aught to be able to pull off some rather thick 'n chunky guitar recordings . Hell, it's almost good enough without the mic'd cab... almost .

Y'a have to spend time tweaking to get the tone you want, but these guys at Line6 have deffinately offer the right tools to accomplish that . Just like Prego... 'It's in there !.'

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Sep 25, 2008 12:03 pm

"That sound" certainly isn't a POD or any other modeller. Its probably a well-set-up guitar plugged into a high-quality tube amp cranked up in a good-sounding room, mic'd up with good quality mics, sent through great quality preamps, mixed by a talented and experienced engineer.

Modellers are used in some studios, but I doubt that they're responsible for many of the guitar tones that truly impress you when you hear them on CD.

But if you're shooting for "decent" like you say, then your POD should be more than capable of satisfying your needs for your band's recordings.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Sep 25, 2008 12:09 pm

Quote:
"That sound" certainly isn't a POD or any other modeller. Its probably a well-set-up guitar plugged into a high-quality tube amp cranked up in a good-sounding room, mic'd up with good quality mics, sent through great quality preamps, mixed by a talented and experienced engineer.


And played by "that" player.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Sep 25, 2008 12:22 pm

that's right, I forgot the most important piece in the entire signal chain!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 25, 2008 12:23 pm

Come on, a good player has nothing on shiny gold connectors.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Sep 25, 2008 12:45 pm

I don't have any problems getting good sound with line6 gear (UX8).

I notice that 40 mentioned double tracking but I am going to second that, I don't know what you are not liking about the sound but if it's fullness this may help. I don't even like my amped guitar tones much until double tracked when recording rock\metal.

Do you double track your guitars dean? When I record a rythm I then record another track of that rythm and play it exactly the same (close as possible). The little differences in each track add a glorious fullness to your tracks once each are panned to the side.

If you are an accurate player you could go as far as playing one guitar part four times and panning them a little different. Like...

50-35-0-35-50

The only thing my line6 sucks at is getting feedback, for that I plug in my ampeg and crank and just record swells, screaches etc.. and mix them in where needed.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Sep 25, 2008 12:47 pm

Quote:
"That sound"


No doubt, I'd rather use a POD than a terrible sounding amplifier. But I'd rather use a POD through a great sounding cabinet with a 57 shoved in the grille and a SDC shooting off into space somewhere than just the POD.

The POD saved my butt (and the clients loads of money) more than a few times getting an "acceptable" guitar one quickly. But nothing compares to the real thing.

If nothing else -- And (A) it's been a long time and (B) I don't recall which POD I was using (POD Pro - I know that much), dig into the functions and find the "AIR" setting. Crank it. Night and day.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Sep 25, 2008 01:27 pm

Boy, I hope I didn't come off as saying that these Line6 products are the endallbeall of guitar recording, 'cause they aren't, and I pretty much agree with everything being said after my post . I merely wanted to state that a 'pro sound' can be achieved with 'em when tweaked properly .

I do beleive Mustaine is using a Line6 product on the new album... alongside his Rocktrons .

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Sep 25, 2008 01:44 pm

As Massive said, the air function on guitar modeling is quite fantastic. I (on the ux8) always select a LDC modeled mic (u67) through V30's and put the air (mic distance) at about 65%. More than enough for me.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Sep 25, 2008 02:16 pm

It seems odd to me that your Line6 doesn't do feedback well, Cap'n... maybe if you ran it into a lower wattage amp ? I'm finding the gain staging qualities of this Flextone amp to be quite capeable of feedback in many different harmonic-flavors .

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Sep 25, 2008 02:50 pm

I'm am using the ux8 which is just an interface. I don't have a pod and therefore do not run an amp. I sacrifice not having an amp for capturing 100% what I hear. I do mic cabs when needed\wanted though.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 25, 2008 09:20 pm

Well, I have gotten "that sound" plenty out of my Line 6 goodies.

But that is not without a lot of work over many years learning what not to do as well as what to do!

I've been using Line 6 since the very first POD so I have that on my side.

On the statement that you will not find ony of those gusy getting "that sound" using a POD or other Line 6 gear. Dead wrong there. Hit up the line 6 site and check out the artist's, both famous and not so famous that have recorded using the direct gear.

Now, that said I will admit that some of my best sounds are a combination of doing as Massive stated. Using a micced set up, but I normally combine it with the direct sound as well.

And finally, yes indeed more then one track of guitars is usually the road to getting "that sound". Whether it is with direct gear or a wall of $4000 amps.

Member
Since: Oct 03, 2008


Oct 04, 2008 11:21 am

dude, idk bout you guys, but im pretty sure that vocals (although not the same as guitar recording ) can be edited so much that you can make someone with no musical talent sing like sinatra.....

so maybe those gold wires and plugs do have something to do with it ;)


-evan

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 04, 2008 07:16 pm

HUH????

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Oct 04, 2008 07:27 pm

Quote:
dude, idk bout you guys, but im pretty sure that vocals (although not the same as guitar recording ) can be edited so much that you can make someone with no musical talent sing like sinatra.....


New to audio?

I wish that were the case. I'd just plug in my Will Lyman, Don LaFontaine, and Harlan Saperstein VSTs, and be independently wealthy by next week. Do you know where I can find those? Email me if you do.

Member
Since: Sep 03, 2008


Oct 17, 2008 10:35 pm

I was using a podX3 and got some decent tone with a lot of tweaking but it was too much time wasting for my taste,i dont have endless hours to search for THAT TONE. I wish line6 would get rid of the quirky,stupid s@#t like alien or whatever,who the hell uses that crap? I do like the look of the new line6 interface,not sure the name,loop something?
I actually found some decent stuff in Guitar rig 3 but there isnt a whole lot for my Bass, im still looking for a good Bass effect unit.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Oct 17, 2008 10:47 pm

See I don't understand this really. Even if Line6 has 200 presets they are all based off a few different "amp models". My ampeg has a semi marshall tone to it which I like.

So in gearbox.... I pull up a J-800, add on the V30's 4x12 cab, select a dynamic mic (421) and add about 60% air. After that I mess with the knobs like I would any amp.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 18, 2008 10:30 pm

Thats the key. I get rid of all the crap and simply build my own patches for all my Line 6 gear.

The thing to remember is those patches were not designed around your guitar or mine. So you need to start from scratch and build from there.

If you do find one that you like from the factory patches, then work with it to make it exactly what you want. Don't just leave it be.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Oct 19, 2008 07:34 am

so far from my experience with the heavy stuff the signal chain is imperitive.

this is why i wanna get an outboard compressor and stuff. so i know what my compressor is doing as it goes in, and therfore being able to get my signal chain "in the first place" right. and maybe even a touch of eq.
and even the mic on the cab in the right spot.
i have found by just recording the signal straight in (computer) and then compressing it, there is always some frequency getting hammered too much by the software compressor, or i can tell that i have some really crapy eq going ballistic in there in the first place once that compressor is on.

so getting th outboard compressor i can see what what those frequncies are doing more before hand. i suspect i need some more practice on mic placement too. but i dont know exactly what im looking for when im micing up until i realize after recording its not it not in the right spot.

i cant say much about patches as i havent heard much of them. but it sounds like to a degree, they are gonna sound just like the real thing, unles you know "really" how to get that real amps sound, absolutley right. then i would think you could see a dramatic change/difference.
i really am interested in the idea of having both to track though.

getting a awesome guitar sound (heavy) will probably kill me in the end. but im not going down without a fight. (my plague)

so dude, you aint the only one.


Related Forum Topics:



If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.