!! Help!! New to Computer Recording
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Posted on Mar 03, 2003 05:42 pm
John Baumgartner
Member Since: Dec 15, 2002
I posted here once before asking questions about diferent recording options and was looking into getting the Roland 2480cd, Since then my budget has came upon some Shrinkage and that is no longer a viable option for the short term. Now I am looking more seriously into Computer recording and have already learned that I will probably need to do some computer updating.
HP Pavilion 8668C
Pentium III @ 650 mhz w/ 100 mhz front side bus
30 Ghz Hard drive Speed unknown
128 Meg SD Ram
I have already been told that the computer is fast enough but just barely and it was recommended to get more ram as well as a second hard drive of 100 GIG or better. This is no problem, where I am hitting a brick wall is what to buy for an interface and what software to purchase that will interface with the interface!.! I don't want to (Rather Can't Afford) to pay $900.00 for a new Computer to run really hot Software but I want the music that goes into the computer to be as high quality as possible. I have seen interface cards like the Delta 1010-LT for about $280.00 or the M-Audio Audiophile USB for about $200.00. I don't know however, what software will work with these items. I have also seen things like the Tascam US-428 interface unit for about $499.00 at Musicians Friend that is available with a watered down (?) version of Cubase?.
I don't need to record a large band but 4 similtanious record capability would be great. If I can only get one instrument at a time in then so be it but I have allot of material recorded on 4 track tape that I would like to get in the computer as well.
I know when I posted previously some suggestions were made but if you would please hit me again with them I would appreaciate it.
Thanks
John Baumgartner
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Mar 03, 2003 07:59 pm Take a look at the new "Gear Bag" section. Your computer should be fine to get going. I would definitely suggest adding some additional RAM, but other than that, you should be fine. Adding an additional hard drive would definitely be nice, but you don't really need 100GB. Even just another 30GB would be good. Just make sure and get a 7200RPM drive, but I would make RAM a higher priority.
As for a sound card and software goes, there are a lot of options out there as I'm sure you have figured out. The Delta 44 is a very popular card around these parts and are very reasonably priced. For software, the most highly recommended app is Cakewalk Sonar 2 XL.
Approximately what is your budget? If you give me an amount, I'll tell you what I would buy in the same situaltion.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 03, 2003 10:36 pm Blues suggestions are right on. For what you are looking to do, the Delta 44 is a great card, and affordable. And if the time comes that you need more inputs, M-Audio cards can be installed in multiples and work well together that way. I will vouche for Sonar XL 2.2, having been a long time user of their products. And it is user friendly, and will grow with your studio and ability.
Mar 04, 2003 11:54 am I would have to agree on the Delta sound card. Also, more RAM is a must. Nothing is going to work well with the amount you have. A 30gig HD is enough to do some pretty big projects. I'm mixing down the soundtrack for a 82min movie and my project is only 22gigs (if that gives you an idea). The computer seems fast enough. If you want to record 4 tracks at once you may need to invest in more than you are willing too. However, you can always transfer your 4 track recordings two tracks at a time. One options that might be a good one is buying digidesign's mBox. It comes with protools LE (which is probally the best computer program that you can get) It also can record two tracks at once and has two excelent preamps built in. I got mine for $400 bucks. Add $200 of ram and perhaps some nice mics and you will be up and going for around $800. Hope this helps.
~j
Mar 04, 2003 12:08 pm Quote:
(which is probally the best computer program that you can get)
In ways I suppose it's got some good features, but hardly the hands down best...it was a few years back, but has PLENTY of competition today (but I digress, as that subject has been discussed at length many times in these forums). With the 1010 would give a lot of power, tho the Mbox comes with an app (ProTools, like it or not) where the Delta I don't believe does, so you would have the expense of an app as well. Which app would be best for you depends on if you need MIDI or Virtual Instruments, as well as how many tracks you need. ProTools bundled version is limited at 24 or 32, depending on the package you get and as far as I know PT supports no MIDI or third party plugins.
If you need MIDI and want to use thrid party plugins Cakewalk Sonar 2.2 would be great, Cubase is another good one.
More RAM, yes, good idea, and it's a cheap upgrade, you can get more PC100 or PC133 SDRAM cheap...your hard drive will work for you for a while, but if you get lots of projects going at once you may want a new one. If it's 30GB it's probably at least ATA66 and a good chance of 7200 RPM, so that's cool. I ran on a 20GB for a loooooooong time and it worked fine and I was working on several album-length projects at once, if you get into film scoring, well, that is another matter...video takes a ton of space.
Mar 04, 2003 01:24 pm I use ProTools LE myself and I like it very much. It does have support for MIDI and you can use DX plug-ins with it, but db's right about the track limit at 24 tracks. The M-Box is a pretty good "all in one" solution, but I would definitely look at the Delta 44/Sonar option. ProTools offers some great features and has a solid reputaton for quality, but there are some limitations as far as compatibility, VST plugs, etc. that I feel should be seriously considered before going that route. I personally love working with ProTools, but am seriously considering switching to Sonar or Vegas due to these issues. Again, it may all simply come down to budget, but definitely look at all of these options before making a purchase.
Mar 04, 2003 01:35 pm Hmmm, the MIDI I wasn't sure about, but I had no diea that it could use DX plugins, that must be a newer development, cuz it didn't back int he day when I used PT LE. Thanks for clarifying...that does make it a more viable option for many peeps that way, but still perhaps not the best.
Mar 04, 2003 01:49 pm I agree wholeheartedly. Like I said, I'm even considering switching. I heard that Sonar is about to support digidesign hardware. If they do get that going, then I'll definitley be giving it a go. I also heard that they're planning to make an export option to TDM. Between those two things, Sonar would have everything I need to make the change and Digidesign will have to come up with a new way to get people to use their stuff.
Mar 04, 2003 02:31 pm If I recall a conversation between Noize and myself a couple days ago, there is a ProTools to Sonar tool, and a Sonar to ProTools is in the works. And I believe Digi support was added in the just released Sonar 2.2.
Mar 04, 2003 02:30 pm I would also suggest N-Track for your recording software. It has unlimited tracks, (based of course on the power of your PC), supports DX and VST plugins, is very easy to learn and is only $80 for the 24 bit version.
Blessings, Terry
Mar 04, 2003 02:39 pm Also, a new sponsor of HRC is Intuitive Works. Check out Intuitive MX at www.intuitivemx.com/ it's an interesting program, it looks at mixdown a bit differently with it's 3d view, it's pretty neat and it support VST, which is cool. And at $150 it's a lot cheaper than many.
But be warned, it's audio only, no MIDI at all. 128 tracks of mono and/or stereo.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Mar 04, 2003 02:52 pm Yeah I've played with the intuitive mx app that Db mentioned, so far it seems cool, and very worth the price. It is audio only though, no midi. Worth looking into though for a studio on a budget.
Mar 04, 2003 03:10 pm Many soundcards come with recording programs. The Delta 44 comes with something called Logic Delta, and I believe the Echo Layla comes with Pro Audio 9 (At least it used to), or maybe even Sonar. I think the Aardvark cards come with something as well.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 04, 2003 05:44 pm I will say thanx to blue for the ups on the midi in PT Le, I too had no midi support the first time I tried it and bailed. But as dB and blue stated, for what you describe as wanting to go to. I would opt for the Delta 44 and Sonar XL 2.2. This set-up will grow with you and not run out in a while like some apps do. And yep, Sonar 2.2 is now supporting the hardware blue speaks of. They are also supporting ASIO in the 2.2 release, and the newest phase of their stuff, which is being released sometime soon is Project 5 which will host any platform you can imagine, and integrate into ohter apps as well as Sonar with ReWire support. I could go on for awhile but wont.
Mar 04, 2003 06:07 pm WOW!!
You Guys are Great! Last noght I went to protools and downloaded their free software. Unfortunately I have no way to get anything to it so it rally doesn't do me any good right now.
Seems that the Delta 44 and Sonar is the most popular. I really cant spend more that about $500.00 (in the next couple of months anyway). I like the idea of it having a box that sits up on the desk. Looks like the price is about $230.00 and Sonar at about $400.00. I might be able to swing that. I have a computer friend that might have some memory laying around for a song (no pun intended).
As far as MIDI goes I have 2 instruments that are midi capable. A Casio Keyboard and Roland V-Club Drums. To be honest I really don't know much about midi..... YET!
How easy is this stuff for a complete Novice to pick up on? I mean the 4 track Tascam tape recorder is a no brainer.
Thanks Again for all the help!
John Baumgartner
Mar 04, 2003 06:28 pm John, you'll have no trouble learning the stuff. Obviously, there's a learning curve for everything, but everyone here will help you get over the hurdles and you'll be cranking in no time.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 04, 2003 07:56 pm And I will add, Sonar has one of the best manuals out there, they have a very comprehensive getting started section. And the tutorials on the CD are extremely well done. That and the book will actually walk you through every step of the program, from the very beggining to the deepest parts of Sonar. The midi thing is also very well laid out in their tutorials also. And like blue stated, you can always come here and ask any question you like.
Mar 05, 2003 02:23 pm I believe you can buy Sonar 2.2 (Not XL) for $300 in some places, so take a look around.
Mar 05, 2003 02:26 pm Yup, Musician's Friend is selling Sonar 2.2 for $299. I would recommend getting the regular version because XL just has some nice extra plug-ins, which you could buy seperately if you wanted to later. That would save you $100. The actual program itself is the same.
Mar 05, 2003 09:25 pm The very best thing you can do is sell your pc and get a mac and go from there.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 05, 2003 09:33 pm Excuse me? Macintosh? Really, sell a PC to buy a Macintosh? Been there and done that, cost way to much to rig for proper midi/audio recording work station. And besides that, the hardware/software is very limited for the Mac. I would not go that route again unless I had the unlimited funds to set up a ProTools rig.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Mar 06, 2003 05:38 am Urrrrgh - Logic Audio.
Mar 06, 2003 08:44 am Quote:
The very best thing you can do is sell your pc and get a mac and go from there.
Now there is an old, tired argument resurfacing...those Mac people really die hard. :-)
OSX is probably the OS that software makers have been the slowest to adopt in their update cycle, Windows XP is probably the fastest, with many companies building in support before it was even launched...XP is stable, fast and reliable, I have never been happier, of course, if they made Sonar, Vegas or Nuendo for Linux I might be happier...but that ain't gonna happen any time soon.
I have an OSX workstation at work, it's OK, has some neat features and such, but it's still just a toy...
Mar 07, 2003 10:26 pm MAN! You Folks are Great! Now just a little Clarification here and maybe I'll be on my way!
Someone said Don't buy a Wal-Mart Mic! I have been using an Audio Technica ATR 30 Cardioid and an Audio Technica Clip on Instrument Mic that I usually use for Sax. Occasionally I will use the two together for a really warm sound (recording on my Tascam 4 Track). Are these Mic's good enough for Digital Recording? I know that there are much more expensive ones out there. Does anyone have a favorite that won't cost a whole paycheck?
I intend on Purchasing, as most of you suggested, a Delta 44 and Sonar 2.0 or 2.2. I am now wondering if I will need any special Mixers or Mic Preamps. I have a Small Behringer MX 602 mixer to give Phantom Power and had also considered running everything through my 4 track because I can add effects(from Alesis Nanoverb)before the music gets to the computer. Or is this a bad idea?
I have read on this site in the Recording Tips that it is very important to have a De-esser. Does Sonar have a decent one in the program or is it better to have the sound the way you want it before it makes it to the computer?
Also does Sonar have Decent Gutar amp Modeling for distortion and such or should I purchase one to run in analog (Pre Computer)?
So Many Questions!
Thanks Again!
John
Mar 07, 2003 10:57 pm hey John, keep those questions coming. That's what this place is here for! Now, down to business...
Microphones:
Your ATR 30 should be pretty versatile and serve you well, but when you're able, you should try to pick up a decent condensor mic. I'm sure you've seen lots of props around here for the Octava 319. service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear The 319 is a very nice mic for the price. Between your ATR30 and something like the 319, you will be in pretty good shape.
Mixers, etc:
With the little MX602 and the Delta 44, you'll have what you need to get your audio into the computer. I would avoid going through your 4 track since it would likely just add a little noise to your recordings and really won't serve you much benefit. Your MX602 should provide you with the necessary inputs and outputs to run through your Nanoverb if you so desire. You'll probably find yourself giving that up for plug-ins anyway.
De-Esser:
Whether or not you need one will vary from song to song. There are plenty of plug-ins that will do the trick. I'm not sure if Sonar comes with one or not, but I would almost guarantee that it does.
Amp Modeling:
Again, I don't know if Sonar comes with one. I would highly doubt that it does. However, there are a bunch of them out there. Personally, I use a POD because I prefer to get my guitar sound from a peice of hardware so that I can take with me come gig-time. This one is definitely a matter of personal taste.
I feel like I've been a little vague with these answers so I hope this info is useful. You'll be in good shape with the Delta 44 and Sonar. Most of these questions are more a matter of preferences and personal recording styles. You'll be answering these for yourself along the way.
Mar 08, 2003 07:08 am OK, time for my two cents :-)
FOr preamping, the 602 will do a decent job, I worked with my 802, before selling it to Jamie, for a long time and it gave pretty darn good results, Behringer has nice clear preamps on it.
I don't believe Cakewalk comes with am amp modeler, at least not a good one, but then I was just turned back on to Cakewalk for the first time in a long time so I might be wrong. Guitar modeler and distortion are really best served in hardware form, with something like a POD service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear J-Station service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear or Vamp service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
In regards to De-essing, there are a few freeware plugins to do that as well I believe, check out The Direct X Files www.directxfiles.com to see if they have one listed. Depending on the singer and the song, decent de-essing can sometimes be done with a good use of an EQ if you can find the offending frequency range.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 09, 2003 08:18 pm I use a 602 for a protable unit. It also comes in handy for extra inputs when needed. I like it as much as I like my bigger Behringer desk.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 09, 2003 11:11 pm And I guess I sould have read dBs post a little better. Yes CakeWalk and sonar ship with AmpSim. It is not the best amp sim out there, but it does have a good set-up and will work in a pinch. In comination with another warming pluggin it isnt to bad to start with. But again, there are much better plugs out there for this purpose.
