California overturns people voted ban on gay marriage

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Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002

I have no desire to discuss the merits for or against gay marriage, what I DO have a desire to discuss is how the California Supreme Court can have the BALLS to actually overturn a ban that was voted on by the people, and put in place due to a majority voting to ban it.

I really don't get that, what the hell is the point of voting if they can just negate the people's voice at will?

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Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 16, 2008 08:42 am

did someone 'bring a case' to them? if so, that's how. judges must think about the state constitution. i haven't followed this case, but i overheard a statement today which convinced me this decision had to be made.

unfortuntely i dont remember what it was.

you sure you don't want to talk about the plusses and minuses and arguments for and against, though? you know it's gonna come up...


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 08:48 am

yeah, it'll come up, but I am going to try like hell to shut up...everybody knows my take on things, no need feeding the wolves. :-D

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


May 16, 2008 09:25 am

yeah...the three branches of government are put in place to enforce the constitution. The People are not one of those branches. If the people really want something then the constitution gets changed, at which point the judicial branch rules on that version.

It prevents people like Hugo Chavez coming in and making sweeping and usually stupid reforms because it's the popular thing to do.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 16, 2008 09:58 am

And who the hell is naive enough to believe that our government serves anybody but our government?

People? Bahahahahahaha They pay taxes.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 10:00 am

fair point zek, but then why the hell have a vote if they can just dump it if they don't like the outcome?


Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 16, 2008 10:22 am

Checks and balances have to be there... sometimes the voters make poor choices.

No, really?

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


May 16, 2008 10:38 am

a lot of the motivation behind putting those bills to a popular vote is basically pandering. Or the lawmakers wants it but knows his base doesn't so they want to try to get it passed without it 'being their fault.'




1. "See, you can't say I didn't try."

2. Test the waters for a real reform down the road.

3. Was just trying to get press and didn't think it'd actually pass.

4. A lobbyist made me do it.

5. (related to #3) There's this mother... she's at my office everyday and cries...and I just wanted to get her to shut up and go away... because I can't deal with the email petition bombs anymore.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 10:41 am

ummmmmm, regardless, the PEOPLE SPOKE.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


May 16, 2008 10:50 am

The people spoke, and the government listened.....just like they always do....

Real listeners that lot...

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 16, 2008 11:06 am

A similar thing happened a couple of years ago in Denver. People voted to legalize marijuana within the city limits. It passed, and was immediately negated by state law. Obviously some forward-thinking pot smokers driving that legislation.

I laughed.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 11:08 am

Oh, yeah, that has happened a couple places...I laughed too...it's a whole different deal when you are voting something in that is already trumped by higher level law...that was funny...the local cops don't bust so the state will...bahaha

Banned


May 16, 2008 11:21 am

I dont understand why gay marriage is even an issue. If 2 people are going to be together why not let them get married?

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


May 16, 2008 11:22 am

We have a marijuana law here for medical use etc. The problem is that even though the state is okay, it's a federal offence to have possession. Federal wins every time.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 11:26 am

Because that would say that a same sex couple is equal in it's value to society as a man/woman marriage, and it's not...simple as that.

Damn, I was gonna shut up...OK, shutting up now.

Banned


May 16, 2008 11:35 am

to you it isnt but to a lot of others it is. My wife's best friend has a 13 year old boy and has been with her partner for 18+ years. how are they not equal in society? especially this day in age of divorce. I think they deserve the right to be married.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 11:42 am

Quote:
to you it isnt but to a lot of others it is


Not the majority, apparently.

Banned


May 16, 2008 11:49 am

what can i say here in the USA we have people stuck in a different time socially. im sure there are certain parts of this country where the majority would still love to keep segregation in place, doesnt make it right.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 11:51 am

Quote:
What can i say here in the USA we have people stuck in a different time socially...


Doesn't mean it's wrong...society is going to hell...taking some steps back might not be a bad thing.

Quote:
im sure there are certain parts of this country where the majority would still love to keep segregation in place, doesnt make it right.


Well, they aren't the majority...doesn't matter what any single persons opinion a democracy is designed to be a majority rule system...right, wrong or otherwise.

of course, it's been bastardized beyond that to a richest rule, but I digress.

Banned


May 16, 2008 01:07 pm

then i guess you feel al gore should have been our president? majority rule right?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 01:13 pm

...whatever...

I have no time or interest in this...give it up.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 16, 2008 01:16 pm

In related legal news...

www.dailymail.co.uk/pages...=1770&boobs

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 01:18 pm

thats an interesting, albeit meaningless, ruling.

if this isn't a perfect example of what is wrong with gay marriage, I dunno what is www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356255,00.html

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 16, 2008 01:24 pm

Hey, maybe the videotape of the wedding night will be released on the Net.

Aw, come on, you know you wanna see it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 01:27 pm

half of it maybe...

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 16, 2008 02:18 pm

Well dB. So much for the whole shutting up thing.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 02:19 pm

:: sigh ::

you think I'd know me better.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 02:56 pm

On the up side of good ol' hetrosexuality, I have a shot at Shania Twain again

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356189,00.html

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 16, 2008 03:32 pm

Strange women. Very strange. Worked with her once. That was enough.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 03:33 pm

Strange, eh, I can look past that, Lord knows I have before... :-)

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 16, 2008 03:35 pm

Oh. Well in that case. Your good.

bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


May 16, 2008 03:56 pm

It's like this.

1) Gay people get married in places like SF

2) Some people pass a law that says it is not legal for gay people to get married.

3) Judges say, that law is illegal because it goes contrary to the constitution.

4) Some people try to ammend the constitution (we'll see how that goes)

It's the exact same thing as if people voted for a law that allowed our free speech to be curtailed. The law would be taken off the books, because it is unconstitutional.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about it. Besides, we have never existed in a true democracy, we exist in a representative democracy, or a republic, if you will.

Banned


May 16, 2008 06:17 pm

[quote]...whatever...

I have no time or interest in this...give it up.[/quote]

so what your saying is that the majority vote only matters when it falls in line with your beliefs? NICE.
thats a typical response from you though. the old tuck and run LOL.. you started the thread if you didnt want to discuss it dont start it. Stop being a ******* pussy and explain to me why you think gay marriage is detremental to society and why you think only straight people have the right of marriage.


bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


May 16, 2008 06:26 pm

woah, there pony. While I don't agree with db, you need to calm that **** down. All that talking disrespectful behind the computer is lame and honestly not respected here. That kind of approach will only close people's minds to your argument. I'm very close to your way of thinking on this issue, but I do not associate with punks.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 06:33 pm

I said nothing about it...bringing the gore vote crap into it is moot, since the whole vote issue is just propoganda, and the elcctoral college is in place anyway (whether good or bad), it's an entirely different system and incomparable.

Additionally, I never said gay marriage is detrimental, not that I owe you an explanation anyway, I said it's not as important to society as the "normal" marriage, which is a HUGE difference, and true.

...and on a final note, I'd love to see you come up to my face and call me a ****** pussy...you wouldn't...

Don't let it happen again. I have not insulted anyone, only responded to comments, and I DEMAND you do the same on the site, otherwise, feel free to leave. I highly recommend you change your attitude around here or take it someplace else. We don't need it. I have had it with your attacking in topics like this and I would recommend you relax.

Get your facts straight before you start acting all tough behind your keyboard.

Next time your in Minnesota, drop by and talk like that to my face, tough guy. Triple dog dare ya.

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 16, 2008 06:38 pm

Right there with you coolo. XTC, that's just uncalled for. dB, and plenty of other's do sound of on their opinion from time to time. And heave even been strong in their convictions. But they never forced their views on anyone.

I'm indifferent on the subject. If they want to marry, marry. If they don't, then don't. What ever. Not my axe to grind. Please don't try to make all of our axe's.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 06:42 pm

forget it, I am totally tired of his aggresive attacks when this stuff comes up, and aimed at me most of the time...

after consulting with another, he's banned, go away, you are not needed here.

ya know what, I am a more conservative person, I have my beliefs and convictions, others here do too, but most of us can get along, you sir, can't. If people don't like the way I think, fine, I don't like the way others think...deal with it.

The triple dog dare stands.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 16, 2008 07:01 pm

http://www.gearsandwidgets.com/external/wherethisthreadgoing.jpg



Well, just like the truth about evolution - whatever it is - the marriage of Bruce and Pierre makes not one damn bit of difference in anyone's everyday lives except for Bruce's and Pierre's.

It's none of anybody else's business. Let them have their fun.

bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


May 16, 2008 07:11 pm

Laugh out loud at bruce and pierre!

Not my site, but I don't necessarily agree with the banning...

But like I said, not my site...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 16, 2008 07:15 pm

It's not a banning for this incident, it's a cumulation of incidents, many incidents of arrogant, insulting comments, condescending behavior to many people, Noize and I have discussed banning him MANY times in the recent few months for various issues, this was just the last.

...not that I feel the need to defend it, I just figured I'd say it should it matter, it's getting old.
...and for the record, there is a world of difference between "ducking and running" and simply "not bothering cuz it isn't worth it"

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 17, 2008 07:27 am

everything is going to be 'ok'

Member
Since: Aug 13, 2005


May 18, 2008 06:18 am

Garth, Waynes World, right Forty??

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 18, 2008 07:53 am

is it? i don't remember that line but it sounds like it could be in there.

the thing is, gay marriage is coming.

the slippery slope argument also has a very bad logical problem associated with it. it has to do with a distinction between a difference of kind and of degree.


Member
Since: Aug 13, 2005


May 18, 2008 09:01 am

Over turning the vote was the start of the thread so calling dB a something cat is over the top.Other stuff that xtc writes can be good but has'nt he been banned before?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2008 09:04 am

No, not banned before, but he has been increasingly negative, rude, condescending and/or hostile to me and lots of newbies around too...it's been a trend that I am simply sick of dealing with.

Forty hit my issue with it on the head...on the whole, I don't care if they have civil unions, I just hate the thought of calling it marriage and thereby making them equal in value, cuz they are not.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 18, 2008 09:05 am

looks like he deserved it this time. when you're at HRC you're in someone else's house, xtc.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 18, 2008 09:08 am

yeah, churches have to do what they have to do. i have never agreed with the idea that churches would have to accept anything that's not in their DNA.

the government must be another matter, though, for reasons of simple fairness. the term itself seems to belong to the church.

who knows what to do.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2008 09:10 am

That is another issue entirely...I dunno why the gov't should be involved at all...the church is as a ceremony of the union, etc...but the gov't shouldn't really care...but still, like typical gov't, they wanna control every aspect of one's life.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 18, 2008 09:12 am

i just mean that whatever rights and benefits under the government that hetero couples enjoy, that must also be extended to gay peeps.


The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 18, 2008 11:17 am

Aw man! Are you guys going to turn this into the separation of church and state argument now?

Bad enough that the lines are blurred in our government right now.

Do we have to blur them here to?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2008 11:20 am

I don't see it as a separation issue, it's more of a "why should gov't care" issue. There shouldn't be benefits or anything for married couples from a gov't standpoint. Employers, benefits, and such is the employers issue to figure out...the gov't shouldn't care.

The gov't is supposed to keep people from hurting/stealing from each other, and that's about it...

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007


May 18, 2008 11:36 am

My wife and I have many gay friends. They are pissed at us right now, because we feel the same way.

Keep the government out of the bedroom. Is what we want.

And as many of you know, we are Democrats.

We believe that this is not an issue or platform for any party to take on.

For many, I know this is a subject that sparks many deep seeded resentment.

Whatever! As I stated before. If they want to marry, then do so. Just don't make it an issue that I have to deal with. Or, an issue that I have to hear about in the general election.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 18, 2008 12:26 pm

And if you're against gay marriage, then just don't do it!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2008 12:44 pm

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Rob...and actually, I have a few gay friends myself, and we rarely speak of it because they have the "if you are not for us you're against us" mentality...so apparently not caring equates to being against.

Just just object to the semantics of using the word "marriage" for the union...but that's a whole different thing...but, like Rob, I simply don't want it to be a gov't issue, we have far bigger problems to attend to than that...

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 07:41 am

Sometimes people are ignorant and wrong

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 07:50 am

Ignorant and wrong or not, it's still the majority speaking.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:06 am

I dont think its particularly relevant whether its the majority. There has to be a break on majority as the majority will often contradict themselves without thinking adn will jump from one point to the next, voting, without thinking if they are contradicting what has been said previously. As it appears they have done in this case.

I'm not sure what your laws exactly mean in this case, in the UK, we have "Civil Partnerships" for same sex couples while "Marriage" is reserved for opposite sex couples. Me not being religious in any way, my wife and I got married in a non-religious ceromony in a registry office where it is actually illegal to have any mention of religion in the service.
The purpose of gay marriage in the UK is mainly to afford same sex couples the same rights as straighy couples with regard to inheretance should one of them die etc which I think it pretty important as it is common for parents of gay people to disaprove so they would be very quick to cut the surviving partner out if there is not a will should the worst happen.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:08 am

The church in the UK does not conduct civil partnerships, which is fine as they contradict God's Law, Civil Partnerships take place at a registry office, so basically, why do people care if gay people are getting "married" its not like it effects them in anyway.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:09 am

P.S. Do you like my new avatar?

I've been away a while (really busy) and I'll be working away all summer, after which, you are stuck with me!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 08:10 am

Well, people seem to care if I have guns, even though it also doesn't affect them...

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:23 am

Well its nothing against you personally. I have some freinds who were affected by the increased gun control in the UK after the massacre at Dunblaine in Scotland - The fact that my friends are harmless doesn't mean that nutters with guns are also harmless, so restricting access to weapons, which lets face it are designed for killing can't be a bad thing.
A married couple doing a bit of same sex bumming or muff diving at home doesn't have the potential to hurt anyone else so its not really a comparable argument is it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 08:27 am

Yeah, the spread of aids, which is/was the fastest spreading in the gay male community, isn't a threat or anything...when one decided to flip both ways and infect some woman, or a man outside his "marriage"...it's just a slower death.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 08:29 am

Ya know what, erring on the side of caution, I'm not going to discuss this any more...it's not like the discussions, even when perfectly civil, ever change anyone's mind.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:36 am

They gay community are actually the most aids aware, in the UK aids in the gay community is actually on a very slight decline, the only social group where it is declining.

that argument is also flawed as its not just gay people who infect people with aids, its people who have aids straight or gay. Also aids is very low in the lesbian population and there are also very low transmission ratew through lesbian sex.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:39 am

I think discussions do change peoples minds, especially if they open you up to new ideas you hadn't previously thought of. I've had numerous discussions with a friend of mine on the forum of our sports car club we are in and he's changed my mind a few times by bringing things to my attention that I had not previously considered.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 08:39 am

It's not just gun owners that shoot people either...but people seem perfectly OK with taking away their rights.

My argument is not flawed because other people do it too, it means there are other causes, it doesn't mean the argument is moot...and if you bothered to read my post I did mention gay MALES specifically, I said nothing of females because I am aware of the difference in infection rates.

Regardless, end of conversation.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:50 am

Sorry, I didn't notice you specified males. Yeah, HIV/AIDS did used to spread quickest through the gay community becuase of ignorance of the disease and the prevalence of unproteced anal sex, because of the aforementioned ignorance. Anyway the comparison with gun control still isn't really a fair one in that people aquire guns by choice, people dont choose to have aids.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 08:52 am

people do choose to have gay sex...and choose lack of protection...

let me stop damnit! :-D

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 08:58 am

ha ha, you cant tear yourself away!

Well they used to chose to be unprotected 'cos they didn't know there was a risk as until the early '80s aid wasn't really known and didn't really enter the general public psyche till the early '90s.

Whether its unprotected Gay or Straight sex is not really relevant though, unprotected straight anal sex carries the same risk of transmission as gay sex if one partner is infected.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 09:05 am

done done done done done.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 20, 2008 09:09 am

This is crap. "Marriage" is a legal term in regard to same sex people living together. If they want to raise children, have a home, whatever, give them the same tax breaks, inheritence laws etc. Let them work as a team in the monitary sense. What they do with their sex drives is between them and their God.

As far as gun control as it is being proposed.... BULLSHIT! Our government has one answer to everything. If everybody can't be responsible, take it away from everybody. Over the last 40 years I have watched my personal rights diminish because a few ******** abused theirs. I am real tired of having the same rights as a criminal because my government takes the easy way out. I havn't been able to take a stain out of my carpet for 30 years because some ******* use carbon-tet to make a bomb.

Wake the flock up people.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 09:11 am

done done done done done

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 20, 2008 09:38 am

I can hear the pot whistling from here.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


May 20, 2008 10:10 am

I'm still working on the part about how gay marriage will contribute to the spread of AIDS. Perhaps I need another Pepsi.

Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 10:31 am

Herb, I didn't think it necessery at the time to point out that that assumption would be considered deeply offensive to gay people. Surely its obvious.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 20, 2008 10:45 am

http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/images_photos/893.gif


Brother Number One
Member
Since: Jan 22, 2008


May 20, 2008 10:56 am

you talking to us or yourself?

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


May 20, 2008 12:54 pm

So, let me get this straight (haha, no pun). We are talking about shooting gays right? j/k of course. I didn't think anyone got married these days. I heard that you can't yet get divorced from a gay marriage. bwahaha, sounds like they have some bugs to get out of the system.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 20, 2008 01:22 pm

Yessireeee de Bob! Butt-surfers unite! If it wern't for them we wouldn't have any politicians or lawyers.

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