software comparisons

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Member Since: Jan 18, 2003

at the risk of continuing to sound dumb, and with much appreciation for all your previous help, i must now humbly ask your opinions on the matter of recording software.

i have decided on the system i'll be buying...windows machine: P4 and 512 RAM. it looks like it should have no problem running anything. therefore, i would love to get some input on what recording software ya's use and what you like about it. i haven't explored sequencing programs yet. don't really know the difference between good and bad. for instance, on the slow computer i have currently, i have in the past used cool edit pro as a multitracker, and found it adequate for small experiments. but cool edit is basically a sound editing package, right? what, besides pro tools, do pro bands use, and what capabilities do those programs have that something like cool edit wouldn't? i liked cool edit because it was intuitive--i learned it all without the instructions. today i opened a version of cubase vst and was dumbstruck. i have never seen a setup like that before. i dont even know what the purpose of the program is--it looks more midi-oriented? i know now i am really giving away my newbie-hood as well as my very shallow resolve toward figuring these things out for myself. so be it! once i get a few things cleared up it will be time to start the cogs rolling.

basically i'm going to be doing live guitar and keyboards in, heavy sound manipulation/editing, and loop-based stuff with .wav files. so my preference is for audio files. not so much midi, though i do need a bit of that. gotta slave one device to the sequencer. and the more plug-ins the better. i am hoping i will be able to find something that'll be able to run something like steinberg's freefilter, which allows you to steal the EQ signature right out of other recordings. anybody know what software that works with?

i am sorry for rambling! perhaps if someone could direct me to a website where the various programs are listed and compared, that would be the best possible thing for everyone.

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 08:06 am

This forum is FULL of threads about what software to use and why. many of us use all different apps and we each have our reasons for liking or disliking various apps for the way we record.

Look through these forums, you will find a ton of info on the subject. I think one such thread has prompted blueninja to write an article on the subject.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 08:01 am

Your question(s) is very good. And it is a rough step in setting up a studio. Problem is, a good portion of the comparisons are marketing tools, and the other portion are what you get here, opinions. And that is about what there is. You have defined the criteria of selection very well. Ease of use, sound, capabilities, cost, expandability. I moved from Cool Edit to Cubase for two reasons. Extended capabilities and sound. I can hear a difference in sound quality between the two, although I still have CP for some wave editing tasks because as you said it is easy to use. From Cool Edit to Cubase is a big jump. Cubase is actually split pretty even between midi and audio. Midi just involves many more peramaters to work with. Cubase is also showing up in a lot of pro studio's as well and starting to show some real competition to PT. PT is a lot like ADAT used to be in the industry. It has become a standard. Cubase is a multi-tracking software. What you are seeing is that you can have multiple tracks of audio, midi, or both! Now all that said, I am a little wierd. I have always liked to pick a software that is powerfull and suffer the learning curve for it's potential. Don't overlook PT either. There are folks here that use it economicaly and effectively. Hope all of this helps. For me it was a lot of money, and I fully understand shoping a lot prior to buying!

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 11:43 am

Does anybody here use E-Magic's Logic software? I hear it's great, albeit very expensive.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 12:12 pm

Logic is now going to be a Mac-only app since Apple bought it a few months back.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 12:19 pm

Really? Hmmm... Interesting. That's going to hurt some of their userbase I'm sure, although the only people I know who use it do use it with Mac's, so maybe not.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 12:26 pm

Oh, it's been the subject of more than one heated debate in the industry mags like ProSoundNews and places like that. I am sure more than a few people are pretty upset about it.

Honestly, I looked at it, checked out a demo and really found it kinda convoluted and clumsy...I really didn't like it at all...

Maniacal Genius
Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 01:39 pm

I tend to agree. Have you ever seen the manual for it? It's like a special edition, uneditted version of War and Peace! I think they're making a big mistake discontinuing support for PCs, but I think they're looking to move out of the "consumer" market with that product. Having it be Mac only will definitely do that for them even if it's not what they are trying to do!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 05:19 pm

Agreed with Logic as a fading PC DAW. I tried Logic and found it very good, except for the facts dB stated. It is not a user friendly app at all. And it very cumbersome to use. They do not intend to have support for PC anymore for the simple reason they want it to be a Mac platformed app only. If people found it good and used it on the PC, Apple will certainly sell some new Macs for the user who wants to stay with Logic. But I would truthfully never recomend it for even a mid level user for the reason's everyone has stated. I will admit thought, they do have one of the best looking GUIs of all the application's out there. Very shinny and full of nice looking knobs and such.

Maniacal Genius
Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 05:42 pm

I agree. That's what usually happens with Mac-centric applications. Everything in the Mac universe seems to look better. I'm hoping that with WinXP growing in popularity, Windows apps might start taking on some of that slick "Mac-like" interface design.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 21, 2003 09:52 pm

Ya, I think some of them will. And I must digress abit on my dissing the GUI that cakeWalk/Sonar uses. After giving it some very carefull thought, and a conversation with dB. I realized, they may actually have it like that for the sake of keeping it simple and clean. And I guess that is why it is so user friendly, because their controls are all simple, upfront and straight forward. Although you can set up wome pretty intense control panels and suchwhen you dig a little deeper into the app.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Feb 22, 2003 03:52 pm

how is cakewalk?


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 22, 2003 09:30 pm

Well it is now known as Sonar, and it is now in its 3rd incarnation. Sonar 2.2, has now done what the others I am sure will soon follow with. they have incorperated ASIO support into their DAW. So far they are the only one to have support for both sides of the audio driver fence. They have also incorperated functions that with other DAWs you must use a second program to use. The program also has Rewire support so it is now as complete or more so then the other big gus out there. dB and I are using Sonar XL for scoring a vampire movie for a local independant, and it is great having one platform from which to run the movie along with all the audio and midi recording tracks we need. And we are still running the movie score in version 1.3.1 since that is where we started it and didnt want to switch in mid movie to another version.

So long story short CakeWalk products are built and platformed from entry level products to the full Pro level of Sonar XL.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Feb 22, 2003 10:15 pm

Isn't XL just the normal version with more plug-ins? Also, what are the main differences between Sonar 1 and 2?

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Feb 22, 2003 10:53 pm

ok, well, i dont have the slightest idea what you are talking about. i just meant how does it stack up to the big guys like pro tools.

i guess my question revolves mostly around where the dividing line is between amateur/sub-par applications and pro applications. all the pro bands seem to use pro tools. i couldn't tell you why, but i'd love to know the answer to that question.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 23, 2003 06:17 am

You are more and more wrong every day.

The Dixie Chicks last album was done on a Nuendo System. A few hiphop producers are now switching from Logic to Cubase after after Apple bought eMagic and discontinued PC support. There are more but it's early and my brain isn't working...

Subscribe to prosoundnews and read all the articles of producers who are only keeping their ProTools rigs cuz too many other shops have them and they want to be compatible.

ProTools is still and industry standard for the same reason Windows is, it was the only game in town a few years ago so that is what everyone has. It is being challenged more and more every day these days.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 23, 2003 11:15 am

OK, for those of you who have not checked it out, go to cakewalk.com and compare the differance between Sonar ans the XL version. You can also see the reviews and lists of professional users of the product.

You seem to have the conception,as many do that ProTools is the only pro level procuct out there. That is not true at all. Sonar XL, Cubase SX, and several others are considered Pro level apps. You have probably listened to many albums, or watched many movies that where produced soly in Soanr or Cubase, or another app of that sort.

I have been running this studio at a professional level for years using CakeWalk/Sonar. And have not had one complaint from a customer who might be thinking, you cant be a professional becuase you dont use PT. So you need to get that assumption out of your head or you will be spending money on products that will not truly fill your need's, or may cost way more then you needed to spend to get the job done in a Professional manor.

And fortymile, if you read the last line of my previous post, you will see it says Pro level of Sonar XL.

Peace

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Feb 23, 2003 09:52 pm

"SONAR 2.2 XL provides all the capabilities of SONAR plus two 64-bit, fully-automatable DirectX 8 mastering effects, and an advanced DXi soft synth drum sampler"

I guess that answers my question :-)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 23, 2003 09:57 pm

See now, that was really easy. The 2 FX that they supply are also very killer apps. I have been using them since version 1 and love them. the cyclone DXi is also awsome. I used an advanced version of it and loved it. Allready got a ton of adders for it too. I will say that 2.20 seems to handle everything so much smoother then the early versions of Sonar. I am not sure what they did, but it is so much stabler.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Feb 23, 2003 10:52 pm

just chill out. why do you think i'm pushing so hard here for answers? A) this is a discussion forum so i make no apologies for using it for that purpose B)i know i have misconceptions. thats why i'm here. i'm surrounded by idiots who are like 'dude you gotta use pro tools its where its at.' knowing that product reviews are oftren biased, i figured: what better place to learn than on a discussion forum?

thank you.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 24, 2003 06:15 am

did someone ask you to apologize? I think this thread actually is a good discussion on the subject (along with about 10 other threads about the same thing).

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Feb 24, 2003 10:36 am

Fortymile, I do admire your persistance! And yes, in the begining we all ask the same questions. And browsing other similar threads helped me a lot too. I use Cubase. A little confusing at first but I am getting results from it the meet or exceed what I hear on the CD's I purchase. Having said that, I am presently holding on upgrading from Cubase 5 to Cubase SX because PinnacleSystems just bought out Stienberg. So we are dealing with a different corporate culture which produces Cubase. I am intending to record long term and have a vested interest in staying current with the industry to the best of my financial ability.

Delima: You have 14 songs you want to produce. Do you purchase something like Cubase 5 as it will most likely drop in price as it becomes obsolete and hope to produce the music before the app is no longer supported well, or attempt to remain somewhat current? If you are only going to produce the 14 songs and put the studio aside, you might do better to have a studio do the 14 songs with your supervision. Might just end up being very cost effective.

Maniacal Genius
Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Feb 24, 2003 11:04 am

fortymile, I use ProTools myself and can honestly say that after looking at Sonar XL and listening to stuff that has been recorded using it, I can't say that I notice any difference in quality whatsoever. ProTools is great, but the "LE" version that comes with the Dogi 001 and M-Box has some limitations that you don't find in Sonar or Cubase. I haven't yet done a thorough comparison to say how they all match up accross the board, but there's definitely no way that I would say that Sonar or Cubase are inferior in any way to ProTools LE. If anything, for a home studio, I becoming of the mind quickly that Sonar XL is the way to go for the most versatility, availablity of plug-ins, sound card compatibility and expandability. I love using ProTools, but if I had it to do over again, I'm not sure I would make the same decision I did when I bought my PT rig.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Feb 24, 2003 05:25 pm

fortymile, if I came off a bit strong, I do apologize. I can be a bit pigheaded at times and maybe it shows up in my typing. LoL

Anyway, as you stated. You are here for answers, to help you make the best decision posible. As you can see from several posts just in this thread. Walt, dB, Blueninjastar, and myself all use differant DAWs, but can all agree on certain points about the others choice of DAW. I have used them all, and am still running Sonar. Why, because I have watched it grow from a simple midi sequancer program to (I will step out on a limb here) what is now probably the most usable and powerfull multi paltform software out there. And when I use the term multi-platform, I dont mean Mac/PC. I mean they have incorperated ASIO omong other things, to make their DAW teh most versatile product to fit many differant uses. And with the addition of their new Project 5 software, there will not be anything except TDM that they wont mate up with. And I have heard they allready have the conversion in the works and released in beta that will save files for transfer to TDM systems. So all in all they are kickin some major hiney here. I will still upgrade my Cubase 5 to SX, and keep up with the Stienberg updates as always. So read on my friend, and choose wisely as Walt said, it will be an investment you will not regret, as long as you get what will work for you.

Peace

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Feb 24, 2003 06:57 pm

thanks, yo's. its good to know that these three platforms are all considered good.


Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Feb 24, 2003 10:50 pm

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