My recording rig! Help please.

Posted on

Member Since: Feb 15, 2008

Currently, I'm using an Alesis MultiMix 16 (the firewire version) but I want to get rid of it within the next couple months and upgrade.

I was leaning along the lines of a Behringer MX9000 or a Tascam DM-24. Now, I'm still what you would call a beginner when it comes to understanding how all the components work with each other. Can anyone tell me how I would go about establishing a connection between my computer and an interface such as the Behringer or the Tascam. Thank you very much, go easy on me, I'm still a beginner!

[ Back to Top ]


Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 15, 2008 04:46 pm

I'm gonna sidestep here for a minute, to maybe help get a better idea of where you're going . . .

why ditch the multimix? And why are you thinking the two decks mentioned?

How much have you used the multimix at capacity?


Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 16, 2008 02:42 am

To tell you the truth, I have just heard a lot of good things about the two boards I mentioned, PLUS I can NEVER get the multimix to stay connected to my computer. It always drops out right in the middle of a recording session. I just want stability. Another reason is because I have a friend that records as well and he has the Tascam Dm-24 and everything he does, whether he tries very hard or not, comes out much better than mine. I record a lot of heavy-metal bands with screeching amounts of distorted guitar. I've been considering buying a pre amp to get more clarity out of the guitar sound, but I wouldn't even know what to buy.

I'm sorry, like I said, I still have MUCH to learn and many specific questions to ask. Sometimes I don't know where to begin.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 17, 2008 09:08 am

Well, it's better to have honest direction, with questions, than have a convinced opinion, that may be wrong for what you're trying to do.

That said,

a few here use the behry board, Noize2u and Walt, i believe. I think they are happy with the board, minus a power problem that crops up once in a while.

The behringer board will require you to have an interface, capable of receiving the number of tracks you want to record at once. This can get spendy on it's own.

The dm24 is a digital desk, which is probably spendy already, but probably does a lot that the behry desk won't.

The behry desk will have your preamps built in, though they may not be any better than the multimix (maybe around the same). The DM24 will have preamps too, and may be better than both the MM and Behry desk.

I'm wondering how much experience your friend has on the dm. He may be much more seasoned, and knows what to listen for, how to set things up, and what works, a bit better than you are at this point. You're stating you have a lot to learn, and this is probably most of the issue with your recordings vs his recordings. Preamps and hardware can play a part, but knowing how to use them is a much bigger variable than gear alone.

I think that even with the dm24, you'll still need an interface to get the signals over to the PC. This will certainly increase the $$$ required.

As far as interfaces, PCI offers the most stability, and I think, the best bandwidth. Though MOTU on Macs can be very stable, and offer huge track counts. But still, if you're looking to build up your rig, I think getting a realistic view of your track counts, will be the best place to start. 8 & under, easy, 8 - 16, not soo bad, over 16, it gets hi-$$$.

re: the multimix, do you have a TI chipset in your firewire interface? I've seen a few problems on here with systems that don't.

Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 19, 2008 02:46 am

Well, when I first got the multimix, I thought it was going to solve all of my problems that I had with my dinky Yamaha mw-10 (when I FIRST started recording). There are a TON of bands around my area that want to record and I want so badly to offer high quality recordings, but I feel limited. I know that starting out in the recording business is tough due to all this new gear coming out and such, but I really want to produce great sounding recordings.

I was leaning toward the DM-24 because I've just read a bunch of great reviews about it and people seem to praise it. I've seen it go for about 1000 bucks which isn't completely out of my reach at all. I've been saving up in hopes to get one in the next couple months. I may be rushing into getting new gear and stuff, but to me it really seems worth it to have a pretty powerful board to continue to learn with.

I just recently changed the firewire card and now the multimix works perfectly fine, but I'm not happy with the quality at all.

Please give me some more of your input! I greatly appreciate it, thank you for your time.



PS- check out my band, I'd like you to hear my friend's recordings. Tell me what you think about it!

www.myspace.com/carelessdays

THANKS AGAIN

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 19, 2008 07:54 am

Heck yeah, more power to ya!

While certainly not an opponent to getting new gear, I hate to see someone plunk down $$$ on gear when it's not the gear that's holding you back. Almost everything I've done is a repetitive practice of trying to find why something doesn't 'fit' well with other parts. This is an 'ear' solution, not a 'gear' solution.

I hope that made sense.

But, then again, when you've lost the love with a piece of gear, then most likely, it's over. It's time to move on. Sounds like you're there. Getting new gear that has lots more possibilities will probably spurn you on to new and greater capabilities. Like how a new guitar can inspire someone to play totally new ideas, and theory. It just 'inspires' you =).

Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 19, 2008 04:00 pm

I definitely agree with you when you say that it can be an "ear" problem rather than a "gear" problem. I don't think my ear is developed just yet when it comes to mixing, I still have a way to go, but I would feel much more confident with that DM-24. I'm trying really hard with this, I want to make a career out of this. I'm still only 17, but I'm looking into schools and stuff.

How long have you been recording? Can I go somewhere to hear some of your work?

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Feb 19, 2008 04:30 pm

Hey carelessdays, I'm currently attending an AE course and you may be interested in the blog I'm writing about it.

beerhunter341.blogspot.com

I update it at least weekly.

Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 20, 2008 03:45 pm

hey! thanks for the response. I checked it out too. Is the course working out well for you? I want to do something like that, but I don't know how I would do that in college.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 20, 2008 03:58 pm

I'm just a hack, mostly. I started out around 8 years ago, with a cyrix 333, and onboard sound. Using a demo of Fruity loops, and N-Track I cobbled together a few songs, and have been addicted ever since.

I've got one song in my profile, that I did before my house burned, that I couldn't finish. Time in a bottle. The other songs in my music area are live, with 2 mics, so it's not a real testament to quality. None-the-less, I don't think it turned out too bad, for being live and outdoors.

I tracked / mixed an acoustic record for a guy last summer, but I didn't get enough time to get it really decent. He was in a rush to track (no re-do's) and in a rush to finish, so it's not mixed as well as I'd want. Nor is it mastered, other than what I do on my own.

I'll post up a song, as I don't think he'll mind.

You can see in my profile what equipment I use.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 21, 2008 02:44 pm

posted new(ish) song:

www.homerecordingconnecti...15354&frm=3

Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 22, 2008 03:48 pm

hey, i'm going to go pick up some microphones in a couple of days. i'm trying to figure out whether i should buy a Shure beta 52a kick drum mic or a sennheiser e609 for guitar cabs. i definitely want both, which one should i buy first?

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 22, 2008 05:28 pm

er, I doubt anybody else can help you answer that. We don't know what you're doing more of, what's more important, etc.

That's a good item for the 'research and pick one' list.

I haven't used either, so I wouldn't be much help anyway.

Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 23, 2008 02:15 am

well thank you anyway. i went ahead and bought the beta 52a and i'm going to go pick up that sennheiser pretty soon.

i have one more question, i don't want to bug you TOO much. I always turn the gain up on each channel enough to the point where it just doesn't peak, but when everything is mixed and done, my recordings come out sounding very quiet. How can I boost the level without distorting my recordings? I usually turn the faders up rather than using the gain knobs, could this be the problem? should I just turn up the gain knobs more rather than boosting the faders too high?

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Gain staging is when you set the gain of a channel. This should be done like you are doing, set it to just under peaking, but make darn sure no peaks get through, because digital clipping is not good.

Once a channel gain is set, leave it alone! Don't touch it again. This setting is ONLY for when you're recording/tracking. Not for anything else.

Once you have your tracks recorded, then you can play with the faders in comparison to each other.

You should see the master meter, along with each track meter. I try to keep the master meter around -3db to -12db. At the mixing stage, don't worry about overall volume, just be focused on mixing parts together, so they're all coherent and sounds good.

After the whole thing is mixed great, I then render the song down to a stereo track, and open a new project with just the stereo track. Now here is where I add volume, master compression, reverb if needed, and limiting. Compression, multi-band compression, and limiter is where you can get your volume.

This is one area that reaper really shines, because it has a great compressor, a great multiband comp, and a few very nice limiters.

Anyway, multiband can be a trick to use cleanly, but they really help when you get used to one. The limiter is great too, because you can set the ceiling, or loudest limit, then increase the output in the limiter. This will also increase your volume. I use each a little, and it brings up the volume nicely for me. I get my tracks up to -.3db, and it sounds very similar to other professional music. Maybe not totally as loud all the time, but I'd rather have some dynamics left in the piece, rather than totally full blast, all the time.

of course, this is just how I do it, ymmv, imho, etc.


Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Feb 25, 2008 03:50 pm

Thank you so much, that helped a LOT. I need to clarify one thing though. So you are saying that when I am tracking, set the gain on each seperate channel, but leave the faders alone? I'm kind of confused about this. Thanks man.


Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 25, 2008 03:58 pm

I guess it depends on how you're getting signal out of the device. If it's a mixer, and you're taking signal from each channel out from the channel insert, then the faders don't matter, because signal is leaving the mixer right after the gain setting.

Channel inserts would be my choice, as you don't have to send signal through the mixer, to get to the PC. Less parts to pick up noise.

If your desk has direct outputs, then the same probably applies.

If you're taking signal out from the end of the mixer (sub outs, or main outs) then the fader does control how much signal is leaving the subs or mains. So you do have to control signal strength with faders as well. I don't like this way near as much.

Now, if you're using the multimix, and it's firewire, then I don't rightly know where it's taking signal out from the desk. If the signal is getting converted and sent right after the gain stage, then faders don't matter. If the signal is going to PC after the summing mixer, then faders make a difference.

I'll let you figure out how your MM is doing things. Basically, if you're recording something, and turning up the fader makes the recorded signal louder, then the conversion and transfer to PC is done post-summing mixer. Probably not much you can do about it, except for learn to work with it.

If that is the case, then set your gain knob first, and leave it alone. Use the fader to try and get unity, so you're not taking away signal, nor adding unwanted noise (and signal).

Hope that helps.


Member
Since: Feb 15, 2008


Mar 03, 2008 03:46 pm

thank you my friend, that DID help. i've learned quite a bit so far just from joining this forum. i just recorded another band this weekend and they came out dramatically better than all of my other recordings. thanks for all of the help!

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Mar 03, 2008 11:08 pm

sweet! that's why we're here, to help out and learn. glad I could help out.

Related Forum Topics:



If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.