Jun 13, 2002 08:59 am How many tracks to you think you will be recording at one time? That is a key to recommending any sound cards, and which sound card affects which software you should use, and then, well, I have to ask...what's da budget?
Ok, I'm Brand new to this and this is what I have so far....
Posted on Jun 13, 2002 08:31 am
still4given
Brother in Christ
Member Since: Jun 12, 2002
Hey Guys,
Like I said I'm brand new to this digital recording stuff. I have been reading a bit here and there and have talked to a few people in person, but I am really looking forward to hearing from you guys who use it all the time. From reading the other posts here is seem as though you guys keep your ears to the ground for the latest and greates stuff.
Let me first list the equipment I have so you can tell me what direction I should take in buying the rest of the stuff I will need.
I own;
1 - Mackie 1604VLZ mixer
2 - Panasonic 3900 DAT machines
1 - Tascam 122 MKIII
2 - DBX 266 Compressor/Limiter/Gate
1 - Behringer Virtualizer Pro
1 - DBX Dual 31-Band Stereo Graphic Equalizer
4 - SM58 Shure Mics
1 - Denon Pro CD player
And I don't have it yet but I am getting a new Pentium IV computer for some work I did for a friend.
So I'm looking for some direction here as to what sound card, software, etc. that I should get. If any of the equipment I have is going to be good, or bad for me to use.
Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Blessings, Terry
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Jun 13, 2002 08:59 am How many tracks to you think you will be recording at one time? That is a key to recommending any sound cards, and which sound card affects which software you should use, and then, well, I have to ask...what's da budget?
Jun 13, 2002 09:03 am I don't really know how many total tracks I would need to record at one time. I have been looking at Digi 001 because it allows 8 tracks, but I'm not sure that I would need that. I would like to have the option of course but in reality I probably won't need it unless I get to where I'm recording drums and want to be able to seperate them. At first I doubt I will need more than two at a time but I would hate to have to upgrade right away so I would like a little breathing room, if you know what I mean. I will be starting out simple but knowing myself, I will not be satisfied staying simple. I would like to head in a direction with gear that can be added onto rather than have to be replaced with something else later, if that makes sense.
As far as budget goes I will have to save up for most of it anyway, so more just takes longer. Like I said I have been looking at Digi 001 and that's $800, so anything less than that is going to be OK. I enjoy buying equipment, (who doesn't) so I will be getting stuff as money allows. I just need a starting point and maybe a logical aquisition plan to work from.
Blessings, Terry
Jun 13, 2002 09:15 am Well, the Digi001 is with ProTools LE, which requires 95/98 as we discussed earlier, since you are getting a P4 if you run anything other than 2000 or XP we are all gonna show up at your house to point and laugh ;-)
I think the Delta 1010 is your best bet: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
The Echo Audio Layla rocks too: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
If you can get by on less tracks, surf through Musician's Friend from these links above and you will find similar cards from the same manufacturers that are really good as well, just have less ins and outs.
Jun 13, 2002 10:17 am Thanks dB,
I see that the echo system has more ins and outs but is $150 more. How do they compare in use? Would I realize any benifit from using the echo unit over the Delta? Is the software that comes with these two units good or am I going to need to get something else anyway?
Also, I have never used my DAT machines yet. Are these useful today? Should I make sure I have compatibility with them? I haven't read too much about people using DATs nowadays.
Thanks, Terry
Jun 13, 2002 10:41 am For the Echo card make sure you have an Intel chipset, I have heard this incompatibility has been mostly fixed, but to be sure I would anyway. The software that comes with Echo is OK, not great, and M-Audio I am not sure about the software included. Several People here use both of those cards and are very happy with them.
As far as a DAT, heck, ya, I use mine quite often.
Jun 13, 2002 11:29 am Speaking of DAT. Can I burn a CD directly from DAT to CDR via a digital hookup or do I need software to change formats? I don't have a CD burner yet but that will definately be one of the first things I will be getting once this is all set up.
My DATs have both optical and coax digital I/O. I guess I'm wondering the same about going from CD to DAT. Can I just record a CD onto DAT through the digital hook-ups? Will it recognize the individual tracks?
Thanks, Terry
Jun 13, 2002 11:53 am no, you need record them to wav files on your PC first to the best of my knowledge. There is probably a way to go straight from DAT, but I wouldn't have the first clue about how...
Jun 13, 2002 06:06 pm Well first off, the Digi001 will only record 2 track's at the same time, and for the money it is not worth the price. Then you have the fact's dB gave you about it only running in 95/98, so that tell's you something right there.
The Delta 1010 and the Layla have the same in and out configuration, so if money is the concern the Delta is a great unit. I and several other's here use M-Audio, and have had no problem's. Their stuff is really pretty top notch. They keep their driver data-base very up to date. M-Audio bundle's some pretty good software with their stuff. But you will want to upgrade to full program's.
dB is correct about the DAT to CD, you will need to do a conversion to get it ready to burn, as moet burner's need either a .wav file or .mp3, or some current audio format.
Jun 15, 2002 10:11 am Thanks for the info,
I though that 001 has 8 in and 8 out. Why is it only possible to record two channels at a time? Also I looked at the Protools forum and it seems that they will be offering an upgrade to XP fairly soon.
I am wondering how the software that comes with Layla and the Delta 1010 stacks up against the Pro tools LE. It looks like I would have to buy an additional suite if I go with either of those where as the LE seems to have most of what I need except for the plugins. The Delta 1010 is a bit less than the 001 but the Layla is the same price.
Have you guys had problems with Pro tools or is it just because it as been Mac software up until recently?
I just would like to make good choices before I start spending a lot of money.
Thanks again, Terry
Jun 16, 2002 11:52 pm If there is and upgrade coming to be compatable with XP, it has not been published anywhere. I have subscrition's to all the major recoding rag's and then some. I have not seen word one about any upgrade, or intent to do so.
Was the forum the company forum, or a private forum? It sound's like wishfull thinking on someone's part. I have several friend's who are very unhappy as they have been told point blank, "there will be no further software driver's past Me".
I use DigiDesign's SampleCell II. It is an old Legacy type card. But it has 8 analog output's, and I love the versatility of the card. They have not writen any new software or driver's for it, and have no intention's of doing so. But being a legacy card, as long as I have a slot for it, I assing it an IRQ, and it work's without skipping a beat.
So maybe they like their Digi 001's and will not part with them. I know the feeling. But I still would not recomend it unless you don't mind the limitation's. And I was mistaken about the in/out on the 001. It is 8, 2 analog in's on the front, the rest are on the back.
I did check their site for a forum and found nothing. I also checked on compatabilty, and ME is the end of the line.
Jun 17, 2002 04:46 am But Noize, that SampleCell is an ISA card if memory serves...and well, there are no MoBo's being made with ISA anymore...so I see why the end of the line has been drawn...not that it still doesn't suck, but the architecture is even being written of...
I have heard nothing of a ProTools upgrade either, I think it would be awesome, but in the computer world I never really put much faith in the upgrade coming "fairly soon".
Jun 17, 2002 08:10 am Noize, You're right. From what I can tell , a release date has not been set. I was looking at the forum over at Digidesign's website. I know that there has been a beta program out for a while now based on what everyone is saying over there. The upgrade has been supposed to come out anytime for the last 3 months according to the posts there. So, who knows when it will be ready?
My problem is, that the more I look at the alternatives, it just seems that the PT-001 offers more for the money.
What am I not seeing here? The Echo is $759 and the Delta 1010 is $599. By the time I buy a good Software program to go with it, say Sonar 2.0 for $399, or Cubase VST 5.1 for $329, I'm still quite a bit more money than the Digi-001 system.
Are those better software suites than Protools?
I'm really not trying to be difficult. I just want to make good choices before I start throwing money around. I have never used any recording software before, so I will have to learn how. I don't want to spent a lot of time learning a system, only to find out I should have gone with a different one.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks, Terry
Jun 17, 2002 10:06 pm They just offer more option's and compatability. With Pro-Tools, your stuck with the TDM format only, this is not bad, but you should look at the cost of adding an effect like say a simple compressor, if you could. The price of that one single effect for TDM system's will buy you an entire sweet of DirectS pluggin's, or VST. With Cubase and Sonar, you can find free pluggin's that are sometime's better then the costly one's. Yo will not find anything for free for TDM.
If you look at what is inside Sonar and Cubase, with say the Sonar XL package, you would be surprised to find a very complet suite of pluggin's and DXi synth's. I believe the price for a synth pluggin for the TDM sytem that would even come close to what I have in Sonar would run about $800.00 american. I might be a little high, but not much. I looked at a Pro-Tools system B4 I went to PC, and after I was through adding what I wanted for I/O's and pluggin's, I was well past the $10.000 mark. Now I own alost all of the high end software DAW's and also Use both WaveLab and Sound Forge. I also own the majority of the high end pluggin's for VST and DirectX. And I have not spent near that much money yet, and I have more now then I would have gotten from that type of system.
I will give Pro-Tools the respect they deserve, they have built a fine system, but it is still limited in what it can do for someone like me. I need software that play's well in any environment, and play's well with other's. Meaning work's well alongside the competition's software, and Sonar truly does do just that. I use sonic Foundry pluggin's in Sonar and vice versa, and I also use them in WaveLab and vice versa.
Can Pro-Tools do that?
And yes dB, it is ISA slotted. I will have to build a special little box and hook it up via midi with a SB card, just so I will never loose it. That is how much I like that software hardware combo.
Jun 18, 2002 11:21 am Thanks Noize!
OK, I see your point. That is exactly the information I am looking for. So now I have a question. If I go with the Delta 1010, it comes with Delta Logic. Is this a decent software to start out with and will it be something I can expand on, or should I go with a different software so that I don't have to relearn everything when it comes time to expand? Like I said I haven't ever used any of this type of software and I know how long it takes to get used to the way software works. I just don't want to spend a lot of time studying Delta Logic if Cakewalk or some other program like it is a much better format, if that makes sense. :)
Again thanks for all the help.
Blessings, Terry
Jun 19, 2002 11:28 pm Yes, it make's sense. Delta Logic, is just a lite version of Logic Audio, which is another high end program. Logic is a very deep program to learn, although Delta Logic is pretty simple. I have that software, as it came with my Delta 44. I have use it only breifly, but it seemed to be OK to start with.
The software would be fine to start out with and learn the in's and out's of the gear. Then after you have gotten some hour's under your belt, you can alway's make the switch. Many of the function's are comparable between most of the software DAW's out there, so time spent learning one is not tottally waisted.
The only drawback with the lite version's of most software is that they do not include the whole processor suite, but as I said, I have not looked to deeply at Logic and don't really know what they have in their lite version.
Jun 20, 2002 06:59 am If I am not mistaken the proTools version that comes with the Digi001 is also limited to 8 audio tracks...I might be wrong there but I don't think so. If that is the case that is a HUGE drawback as well. Considering quite often I can chew up 8 tracks with just the bass, rhythm buitar and a stereo drum sequence...
still4given, don't egt us wrong we are really not trying to talk you into, or out of anything, just giving you the fact as we see them. If you really want the Pro Tools package, go for it, I know a couple people that are happy with it, but they will also be the first to admit it's limitations.
For a pro studio with a large budget, I would consider the full blown Pro Tools setup myself, but for the hobby studio or semi-pro and pro studio's without the sky-high-budget a more open-ended solution like Sonar, Cubase, Vegas, Nuendo or others are the better answer for third-party compatibility reasons.
That said, I still say go with your gut...if your gut says Pro Tools...well, then go with Pro Tools. We have all been around this block and are just sharing our experiences (that's kinda the point of the website), that's not saying you need to listen ;-)
Jun 20, 2002 07:14 am Hey, thanks guys.
All that you've said makes sense to me. In another thread you'll see that I listened and bought a Delta 1010 instead of the Digi 001. When I started thinking about how much it costs to buy the plugins and such for the 001 system I realized that it was going to be very expensive to upgrade, and that's my favorite part of all of this. I guess we all have a little of " Tim the tool man Taylor" in us. :-)
So again, thanks for all the good advise.
Blessings, Terry
Jun 20, 2002 07:23 am Quote:
I guess we all have a little of " Tim the tool man Taylor" in us. :-)
absolutely...it's a necessity :-)
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