Jan 09, 2008 09:11 pm The CAD Equitek, right?
Vocal Mic Question
Posted on Jan 09, 2008 05:13 pm
Mcfly66
Member Since: Aug 21, 2007
Is an Equitek B-100 a decent Vocal mic or is it time to upgrade..?
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Jan 09, 2008 09:11 pm The CAD Equitek, right?
Jan 09, 2008 09:29 pm Pretty abstract question. It totally depends what you're using it for. For bedroom recording as a hobby it's overkill. For your newly setup pro studio with clients such as the (reformed) Beatles and Gwen Stefani, maybe you need to upgrade :)
Jan 10, 2008 10:34 am I think that CAD makes a decent entry-level mic. Right in the same general range of price and quality as MXL, Behri, and SP.
Seeing as how your interface is an Alesis IO14, I don't think that upgrading your microphone is going to make a huge difference in your overall sound quality. I think that the preamps on that Alesis are your limiting factor right now.
For bedroom/hobby recording or demos, its fine.
Jan 10, 2008 10:47 am Quote:
Is an Equitek B-100 a decent Vocal mic or is it time to upgrade..?
Depends on the expectation of the final product, vocalist, genre etc... and of course budget.
This kind of like asking a question, what is the best car to drive to California in?
Jan 10, 2008 01:09 pm Ferrari GT-30.
And I have to agree with Tony, Tad, and BH. It's a good mic for what you're doing.
Jan 10, 2008 01:13 pm VW Van
" are you gooooiiiiiiinnnnnngggg, to Saaaann Fraaaannnnncisco? "
Sorry, thread-jack over.
Jan 10, 2008 01:17 pm You stole my chocolate thunda, you Cat in a hat!!
::ThreadJack Version2.0.1 has shut down unexpectedly::
Jan 10, 2008 07:49 pm Tadpui, you said the pre-amp in the Alesis is my limiting factor, what would you recomend as an upgrade..? Should I look for a different converter or just get an external pre-amp and run the mic through that and then into the Alesis..?
Jan 10, 2008 09:56 pm You still haven't explained what problem you think you're having. If you're not having any problems then leave things alone. What Tad said is that a fancy mic is not going to improve things if you have a non-fancy preamp. Your preamp is also fine.
Why do so many of us just want to spend money for no particular reason. If you want to you can just send me money and I'll tell you that you sound great (LOL)
Jan 11, 2008 10:33 am If you listen to the quality of the vocals on this track, do you think a better pre-amp / mic would help. Or do the effects only need to be tweaked.
www.ingramatics.com/songs/lonely.mp3
Jan 11, 2008 11:07 am I'll have to listen later but it's always a choice for you. If you are a bedroom recorder then there is no great push for A+ quality. A better pre amp / mic will always help almost anyone but whether the differences are really worthwhile is a totally different question.
Jan 11, 2008 11:18 am If you're questioning your effects technique, then I'd say there's a whole bunch you can be improving right there.
I know that for me, I know some (pronounced: 'all') of my projects need better skill. Not necessarily better mic/preamp (though it would help), but better ability to work with the tools I have.
Spending more time trying things out would help me alot, and I bet it would you too.
Unfortunately, nobody can give you concrete advice on how to use effects. It's up to you: what you're looking for, how good your ears are (and monitor solution), somewhat quality of the effects, needs of each song, etc. I'd say 80 - 90 percent of output quality lies in the skill of the engineer / producer.
George Massenburg said somewhere: if you want to improve your engineering/producing skills, learn how to listen, really critically listen. Hearing what others have done, will greatly improve your skills.
( I paraphrase, of course )
Jan 11, 2008 01:06 pm After listening to your track again, I would be curious to know what effects you're using on the vocals.
My guess, is that a better mic would give you better results, though I don't know anything about the mic you're currently using. It's also my opinion that a mic improvement is much more noticeable than a preamp improvement, so if you're going to do one or the other, I would go with the mic first.
I feel like there is not a lot of warmth in the vocals that you have recorded. I'm not sure if that is due to the mic, or the eq that you may have added to the vocal in the mix. I do know that in the past I have recorded on some MXL mics that gave similar results, and apparently the mic you have is in the same price range as the MXL mics. I could just be grasping at straws here...
Jan 11, 2008 03:08 pm i use this pre amp with a peice of crap condenser mic and can get good vocals. its also great for bass. i reccomend this
www.musiciansfriend.com/p...eamp?sku=180643
Jan 11, 2008 03:21 pm PJK Said it, it's about working with what you have. Working with an MXL 990, I can tell you that entry level mics can be a little off-putting when you're working with them, but where there's a will, there's a way. Try different placements and input gains until you find the sweet spot of the mic, then, since you seem to be a fairly dynamic vocalist, and to keep the vox perceivably consistent, set up your compression with a soft knee and quick attack time and you should be set. Use any other effects to accent the results you've managed to get from the mic itself It all takes a little messin around.
End Of Fall put up a good pre-amp too. ART makes 'em real nice, even if they're cheap. You don't NEED great pre-amps to get great recording, but sometimes it makes it alot easier. Plus the pre-amp above runs off a tube, so it'll prolly give you the warmth coolo was talking about.
Jan 11, 2008 03:28 pm It would be a lot better if we could hear the recording without effects but then there is still a technique question.
I would say that you should not get a new mic until you know you need one and you might need to learn more about your current setup before you can do that.
Jan 11, 2008 03:58 pm i agree with tonyoci, in regards to don't get a new mic until you know there's a sound you want that you can't achieve with your current set up.
That being said, it might also be interesting for you to go to a shop, if possible, and listen to your voice through several different mics, and see what the sound quality difference is, and if you feel like you need that difference.
Additionally, I would see about listening to End Of Falls music to see if his vocals match what you want. One persons really good might not be what you have in mind. I say that without having listened to End Of Falls vocals...
Jan 11, 2008 04:15 pm And of course one persons voice can work totally different than anothers with the same mic due to the way it picks up frequencies.
As a home recording fanatic I am dead set against the need for expensive equipment. For studios etc or people who hire their services out it's different but home recording should stick to budget gear.
Jan 11, 2008 04:23 pm Hmmm, I don't totally agree with your last statement tony. I believe home recordists should stick to recording in their home. After that, they should purchase gear in accordance with what they need in order to achieve the sound they want, and in accordance with the money they can afford.
With that in mind... the order of importance for getting quality vocals in my opionion:
Ear/Experience/Processing (55%)
Mic (20%)
Environment (15%)
Pre-amp (8%)
A/D Converters (2%)
Jan 11, 2008 04:40 pm I guess my point is that for a home recording that will not get a wide audience and has no requirement to meet a particular quality measure there is simply no need for $1000 mic or a $2000 pre amp.
Anyone can do what they choose to do and should, but so many have the feeling that they NEED to get better equipment. I'll guarantee that 99% of your regular listeners (non recording geeks) can't tell the difference.
So I'm not saying don't buy stuff if you want it. I'm saying don't try and justify that you need it :)
Here's my theory on your numbers
Environment (50%)
Ear/Experience/Processing (30%)
Mic (10%)
Pre-amp (8%)
A/D Converters (2%)
The major issue with a great mic is that it will likely sound worse in a bad room than a cheap mic. I always used a $30 SM57 knock off, then I was convinced to buy a mid priced condenser and found that it picked up echoes, washing machines, water heaters and everything, so I went back to my nice SM57 copy.
There is also a huge confidence factor. Technology and gear is a left brain activity, creativity and performance are right brain (I may have that backwards). If you trust your mic and are not thinking about it when singing it will likely sound better. I never trusted that condenser and my brain was always thinking about outside noises.
Jan 11, 2008 04:49 pm I disagree as well. I agree that we should probably all start out with budget gear just to fill the important gaps and get our proverbial foot in the door, but there's no reason to refrain from upgrading whatever piece of gear you want. If you have the money and the desire, then buy that Avalon preamp, that Neumann mic, that shiny new PRS guitar or Bogner amp.
I'm not a runway model but I like to wear designer clothing anyways. Same difference with gear. So what if I'm not after worldwide distributon and recognition?
But what the original poster must keep in mind is that simply throwing money into your recording setup isn't always the best way to improve your recordings. Like Coolo and dB have said, your own engineering know-how will make the biggest difference in what you can do with ANY equipment. And its usually FREE to upgrade! Well, maybe the occasional cost of a book, tuition or Pro membership to a website :-D
Jan 11, 2008 04:51 pm I could type a bunch more on this (and maybe I will), but I'm in a rush here.
Anyhow, I think with enough ear/experience/processing, you can minimize the effect of a bad room, but you can't make up for the quality difference in a mic.
As for most people not telling the difference, I mostly agree. And on top of that, most don't care, even if they do notice. They're more concerned with the melody than the recording quality, once the recording quality reaches a certain point (aka not absolutely horrible). The main problem, is that I notice, and I care, which means I remain frustrated if the sound that I'm achieving is not reaching what I think it should be.
Jan 11, 2008 05:06 pm You can spend all you want on gear but if the vocalist can't sing/work the mic then the gear doesn't matter.
Next important is the room. A lawn mower is going to create havock on your vocals.
Then the ability of the producer/mixer/engineer can do wonders with a well recorded track.
Last is the mic/pre/converters. The general public won't even notice the difference.
Jan 11, 2008 05:31 pm I will agree with most of what's been said. Let's face it - the overall quality of today's electronics is so good that there are few products (except for some of the really dirt cheap ones) that truly suck. Especially when you're talking about preamps, mixers, and the like. The main differences between low-end and high end gear are features and durability.
Oh, and Blair Witch Project was shot on a consumer Hi-8 camcorder. Bad example, but you get it. Creativity and imagination can trump technology.
On a related note: anybody here seen the movie El Mariachi? Rhetorical question. Not trying to jack the thread. ;-)
Jan 11, 2008 05:39 pm I have seen el mariachi, and I understand what you're getting at.
Jan 11, 2008 05:41 pm heh, i like BH's points.
Sing like crap into a 6000$ mic with a 4000$ preamp, will still sound like crap =).
Jan 11, 2008 05:48 pm Yeah. Quote:
Sing like crap into a 6000$ mic with a 4000$ preamp, will still sound like crap =).
Sometimes hi-fi is not what you really want.
Jan 11, 2008 05:52 pm Quote:
Sing like crap into a 6000$ mic with a 4000$ preamp, will still sound like crap =).
pjk, were you just in the val kilmer thread?
Jan 12, 2008 05:35 pm I have always worked with the idea its what you put in, not how you get it in. And the putting in part includes how you use the gear or software after you record it as well.
I have worked with some of the best gear available and also with the cheapest. Working with the lower end gave me and advantage that many don't get. You learn how to get the best possible with the least amount of money spent. I have to admit now I have the option of using the best gear available. I still choose to stay within a certain budget. sure, I have some very fancy mic's and lots of high end software. But funny thing is many times I choose to use the freeware and get mostly the same results. Why, because I have learned to use it just the same.
I don't use a fancy $6000.00 mixing desk, I use a very budget ended 32 x 8 desk. Funny enough I get the same results here that I get when i go to a buddies studio and use his $25,000.00 SSL. Reason being I know my gear and software and have learned to make the best with what I have. Learning how to tweak the sounds to mimic that exact same high end gear.
So indeed, having the good stuff does have some benefit's it isn't an absolute need to start with, but can help you in the long run. learn to use the lower end stuff with good end results.
Jan 12, 2008 11:55 pm I'm with Noize on this one. I use the bottom of the barrel, an MXL 990 and the pre-amp that's built into my Tascam US-144 for my vocals, and you've got to learn how to make good with what you've got before you can good with really expensive gear. For Christmas I got a Nuemann M147, a very expensive tube microphone, and I still favor my 60$ 990 over simply because I've learned how to work with it better than the M147. (I havn't had the time to really mess with the M147 yet.) But the bottom line is, so long as you're recording at 44.1khz and 24bit depth, you can get million dollar recordings from almost any gear, you just have to know how to tweak it.
Jan 13, 2008 12:13 am An SM58 will work for almost any vocal.
Then there's the 'toy' factor. My Sennheiser 421 was perfectly adequate. A top-notch microphone. Then I got the AT3035. Was it better for my needs? Who knows? But I have it, and it's cool looking, and it's a condenser. So it must be better, because it's differnt.
Ye, I misspelled that.
Jan 13, 2008 12:42 am Good point Herb.
Yeah, the toy factor plays into every setup. My SM58 Beta works for my vocals live, but I feel it's rather bland in the recording field. So I use my MXL 990 because it a little more 'sliky.' The Neumann, for me at the moment, is more of a novelty mic than anything else. But the best gift I've ever gotten at that. It's better because it's different, but useless because I don't understand how to maximize its potential yet. It's all about understanding what you're working with.
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