Jan 03, 2008 10:52 am Yeah, you'd need a drum trigger to fire the MIDI signal...
www.zzounds.com/item--ROLPD8
Have the beater hit that...or something like that.
Kick Drum Fake
Posted on Jan 03, 2008 10:50 am
mclir9
www.witchsmark.com
Member Since: Aug 13, 2006
I use Sonar 6.0PE. Is there an easy way to substitute a live kick track with a MIDI type kick instead? Like setup the live kick track to play and each time the kick is punched a separate track or what have you will actually place a MIDI Kick sound in its place.
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Jan 03, 2008 10:52 am Yeah, you'd need a drum trigger to fire the MIDI signal...
www.zzounds.com/item--ROLPD8
Have the beater hit that...or something like that.
Jan 03, 2008 10:57 am As another solution, I remember Zek mentioning some way of doing this with a VST plugin of some sort. Unfortunately I can't remember what it was called. But you could set it up to listen to a track and every time it passed a certain threshold, it would play a MIDI sound instead.
Aha! Here it is:
www.drumagog.com/
Jan 03, 2008 11:04 am Yup, drumagog works awesome for this. It allows you to blend with the original kick. Works great with a snare as well.
Jan 03, 2008 09:15 pm Downloaded the Demo and tried it out. This is really cool so far. Thanks for the info.
Jan 03, 2008 10:51 pm There was an extract timing pluggin in Sonar, but what it was called leaves my little head at the moment. Look in the manual it should tell you. It simply took the track and looked for transients and converted them to midi note data if you wanted. Kinda cool really.
Then you simply exported the midi data to a midi track and picked the synth you wanted the kick to come from.
Jan 04, 2008 01:02 pm On the drumagog thing, it can play midi sounds but shines by replacing with real sampled drum tones. Depending on the complexity of the .GOG file they can have multiple levels depending on how hard you hit it. Some have left and right hits which sound more realistic during say.. faster drum rolls.
There also have "dynamic" and "random" features that will toss the mentioned hit variations in just to give it that live feeling. It's good stuff, I wish it would have been cheaper though.
I used to use it way too much when I started because... well I sucked at capturing the kick and snare. Now I use it around 30% on hard rock for kick&snare and about 50% for metal.
Edit: Oh yeah, I do have a few usermade GOG files floating around if anyone uses this software. Can never have enough.
Jan 06, 2008 01:26 pm Hmmm, I've never heard of druagog, looks sweet.
I use a program calles AP Trigga...
Same Idea as Drumagogg...
It's less interactive though...
Jul 16, 2008 04:22 pm Is there a way in Drumagog, besides using the sensitivity knob, to manually tell it which transients you want it to effect??
My drummer is kind of sloppy and throws in some unwanted kicks and sometimes even Drumagog will pick up another drum and think it's a Kick, and it would be great to just manually tell Drumagog which Transients you want it to effect.
Jul 16, 2008 06:38 pm Noise actually explained it to me while out for a drink years ago :)
It's called "Extract Midi Timing" ...it's uh...somewhere in the SONAR toolbars (not an effect)... it works like a compressor...you set a volume threshold and anything louder than that generates a midi note...then you run that midi note though a sampler which places the replacement beat... and mute the original.
Jul 16, 2008 07:49 pm In Drumagog, you can set the target frequency as well. This would help separate the snare from the kick for example. The problem with using just a volume threshold is that the snare for example, can fool the volume threshold into thinking that the sound source is the kick (because of really loud bleed).
Jul 17, 2008 08:36 am here's a free way (sort of) of using a fft analyzer in gate mode, targetting a frequency, and sending the signal to drum-trig. Drum-trig is a free plugin, that works like drumagog. I've heard it's not as fancy, but is free, so there you go =).
If there's something in Sonar that will pass only target freq at certain amplitude, you can send it to drum-trig, and there you go. Drumagog for free.
www.cockos.com/wiki/index..._-_Using_ReaFIR
Drum-trig:
www.stormrecordingstudio.co.uk/VST.htm
Here's another one I saw posted, though I've not used it:
koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/
EDIT: that last one looks like a midi trigger, so maybe not quite the same. Looks complex too =/.
Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm BH has it correct. Turn on the Frequency tool, boost the punch (not the boom as it's makes long waves that confuse drumagog) at around 100-110 and give it a small volume boost. Honestly though, I do not get any amount of bleed that would cause my snare drum to trigger the kick track. I always EQ and compress a drum the same as I normally would before entering drumagog, that may resolve some of the bleed issues right there. Another thing, turn down the slider from advanced to basic a bit, advanced will pick up double bass at a tempo of 200 where basic picks up less hits and is perfect for a slower tempo rock. It pretty much helps determine the amount of time in milliseconds that passes before it will trigger again.
On the extra kick hits, delete em :)
Drumtrig is pretty cool for a freebie but I don't like the fact that replacement is done with one wav file, that leads to no dynamics. Drumagog can use say.. 30 wav files all recorded at different velocity, and then programmed so when it picks up a hit at -12 it plays the -12 sample file, this is then all stored in a GOG file. My drummer does really fast snare buildups, the free poorly made GOGs reflect just that by jumping from soft to hard hits to fast. The nice ones sound natural as they build up, one of the best snares is actual a freebie from pipeline audio, and Andy Sneap did a pretty wicked snare also. These are both available at the Drumagog forums. Anyway, I have been using the GOG for about 4 years, I will try to answer questions if you have em.
edit: looking at the Storm Recording guys, I think I will try their drum transient processor for kicks. Sounds like it might be cool on the toms.
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