Phase Correction

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Mans reach exceeds his grasp
Member Since: Oct 23, 2007

Just for giggles I've been playing around with mastering effects on a buddy of mines computer; the Waves Diamond Bundle. Lots of cool stuff.

While I was exploring the plug-ins I was digging for info on various mastering issues/ fixes ect. and I cant understand a bit how to 'Phase Correct' a piece. I understand what it is and its symptoms, but not what route to go about to fix it. Any tips or tutorials anyone might have on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

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Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Nov 27, 2007 05:06 am

hmm i don't know any tutorials off hand, but i do know what it sounds like....it's a tell-tale sound of a phaser that's 'stuck' almost like the track is playing through a steel pipe or something.

this is due to the comb-filtering that is happening to the signal (some frequencies get canceled, others get exaggerated.

this can happen during the tracking phase when you use more than one mic on a single source (guitar cabs, drum overheads etc.)...if one mic is right against a speaker it'll hear the transients a few milliseconds sooner than the second mic that is say a foot or so back.....

when you combine the two signals you get phase problems. a quick way to fix it is to nudge one of the tracks over so they line up....you can zoom in real real close and get them right....

you can prevent it by using the "3 to 1" rule (it's explained somewhere around here) and you can also prevent it by getting the mics in phase with eachother before you hit record....just check them in mono and you will hear when they're out.

i really don't use real time plugin type phase correction because frankly i don't trust them....it's best to use your ears in my opinion, sometimes you may like the 'out of phase' sound.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Nov 27, 2007 09:22 am

Just a extra thought, I read somewhere, when using two mics, (and a stationary source), flip one polarity of a mic (if possible) and move the mics until you get the worst sound, quietest and thinnest, this will be the most 'out of phase'. Then flip the polarity back, and you should be golden.

Unfortunately, doing this for acoustic guitar probably won't work, as musicians don't hold totally still. Plus, I don't think my mixer has a phase invert.

It does sound like a neat idea though.

Mans reach exceeds his grasp
Member
Since: Oct 23, 2007


Nov 27, 2007 10:05 am

The weird thing about this instance though, is that it's on a drummers cymbals; he uses an 18" ride as a crash, which he has right next to his 20" 'extra crash'. Kinda odd, but he wont change so we have to. It's Dream Theater type music, so it gets pretty intense at some points and for the life of me I can't correct it. I've tried reversing the polarity of one mic, as well as using a single mic mid way, but it still seems to happen; almost as if the 2 cymbals are tug-o-waring for the phase prize. Really aggravating.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Nov 27, 2007 11:10 am

I'm with WYD: zoom in very very close, and nudge one track till the peaks line up.

It works, and no extra CPU given to a plug.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Nov 27, 2007 03:18 pm

You could try flipping the pahase on the track in question in Sonar... it may help, depending on the recording .

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 27, 2007 09:42 pm

Ya, its really not the cymbals causing the issue. It is the mic placement. I have come across that many times and in certain cases it took the better part of a couple of hours to get them set up properly. And it can come from any mic on the kit, not just the over heads.

Flipping the phase in Sonar can help, but some times it just wont fix it entirely.

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