State Wide Smoking Ban
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Posted on Sep 25, 2007 05:56 am
dbmasters
Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002
Soon, I believe Oct 1, a state wide smoking ban goes in to effect for restaurants and bars, not sure of the exact rules and places, just DAMN glad to see it.
I understand people getting pissed about "their right to smoke", but when their right makes me stink like smoke when I get home at night my sympathy runs out.
I would suspect for you non smokers that still gig regularly something like this might be good for you, though, I suppose it may lead to smaller crowds too.
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GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Sep 25, 2007 06:09 am dan if you recall when i was out there i choose to smoke outside, because we're so used to it here in CA that it doesn't matter anymore. just becasue you can't smoke in a bar doesn't mean you'll get less of a crowd, they'll just have to adapt, plus people will still want to go out and drink.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Sep 25, 2007 08:30 am In my books it's all good. It truly is a minor incumberance at most to not smoke while in these establishements. There is no questioning that it is healthier for everyone involved, to say nothing of cost saving per the awful task of cleaning up after smokers. I'm not an advocate of "the state" Federal, State, or any level, governing issues like these. I would much prefer that the establishment set the rules and be backed by state enforcement, but that is another issue having nothing to do with smoking directly. Regardless, it is the way 'we the people' do things.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 25, 2007 08:30 am Been in effect here for about 6 months and as a smoker i have found it suprisingly welcome.
I'm smoking heaps less as a result. It can be a pain in the arse in some places if their layout sucks but by the most part it's great.
It's killing a few smaller pubs though.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Sep 25, 2007 08:40 am I agree Bleak. My take is if you don't like the smoke don't go in. Even as a smoker I follow that approach. There's a huge difference between taking a couple of hits off a cigerette and breathing the air in a smoke saturated room. There are numerous places I won't go because of the environment.
Sep 25, 2007 08:42 am Well, that "second hand smoke" thing really doesn't have much for legs to stand on, I think it's more hype than anything. Of all the info I have read about how bad it is, the studies all are related to people that live with smokers and are therefore exposed all the time. People that go to a club a couple evenings a week have never shown any real ill effects even over years.
That said, my argument isn't really a "health" issue as much as it is an annoyance issue, I simply hate the rank smell and hate coming home, crawling in bed and having my wife roll over and say "go wash your hair". :-)
I am glad to see it state wide tho, as when cities have done it, small pubs right on the border of the city have gone out of business since people can drive, or even walk, down the street a few blocks to get into a smoking club.
Statewide is a better and fairer message to send.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Sep 25, 2007 08:54 am Ya, dB, I agree with you per the health risk of sitting in a smokey bar for a couple of hours. I doubt there is any great risk. I simply don't like my eyes burning, the intense stench, etc. I have gravitated to smoking outdoors only. Anyway, it's no biggie to me. Glad to hear that you will be more comfortable in more places soon.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Sep 25, 2007 09:31 am We have had this law for about 3 or more years now. The have just stepped it up a bit recently. Now you can't smoke within 15 feet of any door or window as well.
I smoke and I don't mind the law at all.
Sep 25, 2007 09:49 am Stop smoking BH, it's killin ya...
Sep 25, 2007 09:52 am We’ve had the law for about a year now. On my last birthday, we decided to go out to the club where we used to play in the house band, to see some old friends. This was the first time I’d been to a bar since the law was passed. They had an outside smoking area, and as the night and drinks wore on, it became harder and harder to remember to go outside. So of course, at about 11 o’clock, I was standing at the end of the bar where I always used to stand when the band was on break, and the old habits kicked in. I pulled one out and fired it up. The look on the barmaid’s face was priceless. “AAAHHH! YOU CAN’T SMOKE IN HERE!” Scared the hell outa me. Fortunately, I was close to the door. Very funny at the time.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Sep 25, 2007 09:55 am One crutch at a time db. It won't be long until I'm ready to take on this demon as well.
Sep 25, 2007 10:15 am It's been like this for years in California - at least 10 and maybe more. You get so used to it that it's extremely hard to go to a place that does not have the rule and you also start to spot even on smoker that may be 10 miles downwind somewhere two towns over.
I don't drink but I still have hangovers after attending a smokey bar so my theory is that smoking contributes to the crappy hangover feeling more than recognized.
Oh yeah and no more smokey smelling hair.
Sep 25, 2007 10:19 am Yeah, when Geoff was here he said Cali was that way and walked outside just out of habit...it's probably a decent habit to have...some bars are worse than others tho, some have better ventilation systems than others.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Sep 25, 2007 12:44 pm When I was in Holland (they have no smoking ban) I would always put my smoke out or wait outside etc before entering a shopping mall and such. They would look at me funny and ask what I was doing putting out my smoke. Not smoking indoors is something that every smoker can adjust to easily.
Sep 25, 2007 12:50 pm I remember people smoking in grocery stores. My wife says that when she had her last baby (1986) there was a patient legally smoking in the same hospital room with her, ashtray and all. Seems unthinkable today.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Sep 25, 2007 07:41 pm It's been banned in Calif for so long I can't even remember when it started. :) I'm surprised more states haven't done it yet than have. It's never bothered me to not be able to smoke in a restaurant, but if I had still been bar hopping when it was banned in bars that would have been a bit more difficult. <G>
Dan
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 25, 2007 09:05 pm Mind you i don't see any reason there can't be a smoking section so long as it's properly ventilated.
So long as the pub/club/bar can afford the extension or building costs.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Sep 25, 2007 11:27 pm
I'm a heavy smoker, but i have no problem with smoking restrictions in buildings here in Thailand, its getting that you can t even smoke NEAR a building. But wouldnt it be a bit selfish for smokers if they just acted like they didnt see the logic behind the rules? I mean, i love to smoke and i doubt ill ever quit, but i'm not in denial of its effects and so obviously i have to respect other peoples choices, as long as they respect mine. I dont mind walking some 10 meters away from a building to get a drag, but i never appreciated the whole "eww ur a smoker ur evil" mentality.
Sep 26, 2007 03:29 am it's not that you're evil, just stupid!!!
i am too! haha
Quote:
just becasue you can't smoke in a bar doesn't mean you'll get less of a crowd
down here in the souf, there's ALOT of smokers (prolly a majority, but i'm not sure) this same law takes into effect Oct. 1st here aswell, two other local bars started banning smoking early, and their business dropped so much, they re-allowed smoking within two weeks.
i lived in florida for two years and it wasn't much of an issue to me because EVERY establishment had an outdoor patio type thing for smokers....now up north this isn't so practical...so i'm not sure how i feel about the government telling business what they can and can't do (here comes my right-wing roots!).
to me, if it's a "free" country, then leave it up to the business owners to make the rules, i'm sure alot of nice RESTAURANTS would be just fine advertising a 'friendly non-smoking environment'. and could take pride in it, but a BAR (where i work) well let's just say we're in the business of killing ourselves slowly. and i'm sorry it's NOT a RIGHT to demand clean air at a place of business....if you don't like it, don't go there....kinda of the same sedamant (sp?) as 'if you don't like it, leave.
so yeah, i don't mind (as a smoker) going out of my way to smoke, but it just seems like the government is overstepping it's bounds by telling private businesses what they can and can't do.
for some reason (i'm not sure how our laws are) we've decided to remain smoking, and now we gotta go 21 and up all day, every day.
good choice.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Sep 26, 2007 03:37 am Just being devils advocate, and this is gonna be weird coz im a smoker to. But the case u brought up about two businesses not being to ban smoking, i guess i would say if they were the first two and other businesses still allowed smoking then it wouldnt be a level playing ground. If all the bars in that area stopped at the same time, maybe the results would be different.
And on the converse of restaurants advertising smoke free environments, they could just as easily advertise their comfy smoke friendly patios or decks.
I get ur point about govts controlling businesses too much, but i think its a case by case thing. In terms of letting businesses make whatever rules they wanted.. well in my head all i can see is a bunch of restaurants with "no-coloreds allowed" signs, but that might be a bit extreme. Just saying, as a society there are things that we all have to except as compromises for "larger" freedom.
Sep 26, 2007 03:43 am yeah i meant to put that factor into my post....it was a bit unfair, cuz they all quit the smoking, while we didn't, and yes our business went up because of it...if it were state-wide, then it would have been different.
i was playing devils advocate when i said it's not the government's job to mandate business rules of operation. as a 'pinko' i know they (the gov.) is trying to look out for the better of society (which i think is good), cuz yeah, smoking IS dumb....and smokers are dumb for smoking, it's a drug, and we're addicted....we really don't 'like' to smoke, we just think we do because our body is addicted to nicotine, plain and simple.
but i do see it as a contradiction to our mantra of 'land of the free'...and there's a part of me that disagrees with the concept of them (the government) telling privately owned businesses what they can and can't do.
get up, stand up....stand up for your rights!
Sep 26, 2007 05:31 am Quote:
and i'm sorry it's NOT a RIGHT to demand clean air
no more of a right than it is to force your putrid air on others. I'm all for personal freedoms until it starts bothers others, then it's not a freedom.
You are right tho, don't like it, don't go. There are a few clubs I liked to see bands at and whatnot that had a crappy ventilation system and it got WAY too smoky in so I stopped going...ironically the one in my mind right now is actually closing down. HA
I have the news on this morning (like most mornings) while I do my morning HRC check and now state border bars are bitchin about losing business...saw that comin a mile away.
Sep 26, 2007 07:56 am Quote:
it's NOT a RIGHT to demand clean air
ok lemme take that statement a bit further and say it's not your right to demand clean air in a private establishment...i just think it should be up to the owner/operator. nobody's forcing non-smokers to go to smokey bars...and the government IS forcing non-smokers to move outside...who's stepping on who's toes here?
it's not your right to eat at Embers Tavern and Grille, it's your choice...and if Embers is a place that allows smokers to smoke, then that's part of the 'experience'.
Sep 26, 2007 08:01 am THAT I agree with completely, it should be up to the operator of a privately owned business. But then it should be their right to hire and fire who they want to, but there are these minority quotas and other crap too.
I am far more pro-business than pro-labor when it comes to these types of topics. It's a businesses owners right to allow smoking, to choose not to hire a minority, etc...and it's also the publics right to choose whether or not to support such a business.
I would rather see it be made illegal to smoke next to me outside in public.
That said, I can't say I am bummed out about the law...cuz I'm not, I can understand and actually agree with your argument though.
Sep 26, 2007 08:11 am speaking of......new topic.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Sep 26, 2007 10:06 am Regarding business owners having the right to decide whether they allow smoking or not in their establishment... I'm pretty sure that most bar owners would want to allow smoking as smokers tend to spend more and drink more. A smart business man could use this as leverage and open up a non-smoking bar to accomodate the non-smokers.
There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned and this is the ultimate reason behind the smoking ban around here. What about the workers (waitresses)? Should they be forced to work in a smoke filled environment? We have smoking patios around here and employees have to sign a release form if they are to work in that area.
Like a lot of things, finding a solution that pleases everyone will prove to be challenging.
Sep 26, 2007 10:28 am Quote:
Should they be forced to work in a smoke filled environment?
Who is forcing them to work there? They have as much right to work there or not as many people do to go there or not. I realize a job is a bit more personal and necessary than a bar to patron, but it's still a choice.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Sep 26, 2007 10:42 am Ya, it is a choice but for many single moms it is one of their only choices.
I really feel for the bar owners cause their the ones getting screwed. A number of years ago the city agreed that if businesses upgraded their ventilation and isolated an area they would be able to have a smoking area indoors. This was at a considerable expense. Now they just want to outright ban it indoors regardless. I would be pretty pissed if I just spent thousands of dollars on a ventilation system when it now doesn't make a difference anyways.
Sep 26, 2007 10:50 am Oh, true, I am not saying it's an easy choice or a fair one, but, at the end of the day it is a choice.
Business owners on the whole take the shaft right up the poop shoot in a lot of ways being told how to do their thing. I think it's wrong to be told who you can hire, who you can't what you can allow, what you can't, how much you have to pay, etc...
Free market would take care of all that by itself, as soon as gov't gets involved trying to help things get goofed up.
Free market will dictate minimum wage, population and personal freedom should dictate who you hire and how...how you treat your employees etc, and consumers will decide if you stay in business or not.
Gov't does not need to be involved.
Sep 26, 2007 11:01 am One thing I know without question is - the day the government tells me that I can't smoke on my property (that includes my car) is the day I become a criminal.
Sep 26, 2007 11:14 am Many people (myself included) have pretty much that same sentiment about pot...well, minus the "car" part...
Sep 27, 2007 05:08 am yep, and i must admit, i've never felt so 'american' until i read BH's post above...with the whole "the employee works at the establishment voluntary" issue...
F yeah, nobody is forcing anybody to work anywhere.
Sep 27, 2007 05:09 am it's not a right to have a job or to have income.
Sep 27, 2007 06:42 am exactly...what is considered a "right" these days is widening lately, most of them are "privileges" not rights in my book.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 27, 2007 10:14 pm For me its a moot point. I have been smoking outside for over 17 years now. I think we only smoked in our first apartment and that was it. It has been an outside thing ever since, even in the 40 degree below wind chill of Minnesota.
Although I do like to have a puff in a bar, it won't kill me to not smoke in one either. And probably the way I am, I won't go outside by my friggin self to light up either.
As for them passing a law to make it mandatory, I really don't have much to say on it.
Oct 03, 2007 06:10 am I was in a bar once where I was sitting next to a chain smoker....yuk. SO I had an idea...I started farting. The guy looked at me all tweaked and said "my God is that you"? I proudly said yes it sure is but good thing for you is that you wont go home smelling like it. I on the other hand will go home smelling like smoke.
He got up and left... hahahaha
:))
Oct 03, 2007 06:26 am Wow, that's a pretty interesting tactic.
I like it.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Oct 03, 2007 08:14 am On the bright side, after reading and posting on this last week, I went upstairs to get ready for work while still thinking about this thread. I realized that I have changed over the years enough that the only thing smoking did for me was to get rid of the urge to smoke. Beyond that the activity holds nothing for me anymore. I haven't had one since.
Oct 03, 2007 09:03 am Quote:
SO I had an idea...I started farting.
Wow, you can summon them at will? I'm impressed.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Oct 03, 2007 06:58 pm Rob, you just made my day. I personally won't miss smoking in a bar. As I stated before, I will smoke lightly in a bar, but the stink when I get home is putrid let alone the cigarette hangover is much worse then the beer or whiskey.
