the 'N' word...

Posted on

Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004

just curious on y'alls opinion's on that......from what i hear, they buried it and now it's a 'dead' word. but we all know that's a bunch of whoop-la.

but here's a wierd thing....i was born and raised in the north and that was a word that i would never say....outta respect or whatever...

NOW beein' converted into a 'good 'ole boy' for over 10 years, i don't mind sayin' it (contextual speaking)...BUT i do catch myself blurting it out for the sheer shock factor itself. i'm no racist, but i like stirring the pot.

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Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007


Aug 18, 2007 05:33 am

I don't use the word at all, anytime, ever. Not in private or even in thought. Once you use it a little, you'll be likely to use it more often.

I also don't use bastard, *****, or son-of-a-***** as these call into question the integrity and species of motherhood.

I was taught never to attack the character of a person. Argue their beliefs, tell them how they pissed you off, but to call them names or demean their character doesn't do you any good.

"Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can break your heart."

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 18, 2007 05:42 am

i agree 100 percent.

what about 'context'? i do it purposefully for the 'shock value' inorder to me ppl uncomfortable. not black ppl, but ppl that that word means something.

it's hard to describe, basically, what it comes down to, i'm trying to take the meaning out of a 'taboo' word.

some people carry alot of weight with it, i feel, the best way to 'defeat' it is to belittle the word to the point where it dosn't mean what it used to.....i'm way too drunk to say it right, but i feel if we just take the 'stigma' out of it (which our generation can do) it suddenly becomes just another word.

i don't mean to belittle the history behind it, but i think, we've "outgrown" it. as a society.

correct me if i'm wrong.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Aug 18, 2007 06:04 am

i think that when older generations die, the word will lose even more power. kids use it freely today. the thing that makes it scandalous is that people who were alive in the 60s are still alive today.


Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 18, 2007 06:11 am

correct my friend, that's EXACTLY why i use it freely how....i wanna take the meaning out of it. i see no reason for it these days.

Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007


Aug 18, 2007 06:12 am

If that word had had a different meaning or usage to it, and had been adopted to mean black folks, there would be a way and a need to belittle it and rob it of its bad attributes.

But it didn't and you can't. It has always meant exactly what it means today, and it has always been an insult to those it was aimed at.

How can you use that word without the stigma it has? Will it come to mean something positive?

I just can't see it.

Now, if you want to work on a word that has been stolen to mean something else and could be ressurected, try the words "gay" or "fag". Gay used to mean jolly and carefree, and fag was a cigarette. Not now, they done been hijacked.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 18, 2007 06:17 am

Quote:
and it has always been an insult to those it was aimed at.


oh i beg to differ, it'd done become an 'everyday word'....at least here i the souff. black or white, everyone uses it here.

it's used quite freely, AND is i pride symbol.



my goal is to take the weight off of the word.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 18, 2007 08:51 am

I can't tell you. I guess the "F" word (I feel absolutely stupid using first letter acronyms in this context) has been desenceitized by over usage. It still carries the connotation of a discusting little word to me. "Banning" a word, so to speak, does nothing but make it more dareing or riske. The whole race issue is dead to me as I know our first ancestors walked off the continent of Affrica and populated the rest of the planet from a single origin. I've traveled the world enough to understand the singularity of the human experience. Intense dislike or hate will be expressed. In the long run, I'm not sure any approach to a single word is any better than another.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Aug 18, 2007 09:08 am

It seems to me the so-called "race-war", at least in my area is 90% fueled by the media, like most thing, it seems of the media would not sensationalize and publicize the very few race-instigated incidents that do actually happen, the whole issue would be a dead issue.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 18, 2007 09:37 am

Agreed, hype sales and service inc. People thrive on having their sences excited. Hence the screaming moron following the news with the widget you can't live without!

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Aug 18, 2007 02:26 pm

I never use the word, and I greatly dislike hearing people use it. That word needs to die because of its history. Its a carryover from a bygone era that carried with it some terrible abuses of human rights. Its not a word I'll ever "work in" to my vocabulary, nor a word I have any desire to "take power away from". Its a useless word and I honor no justification for its use.

I was raised far enough south that the word had no use other than an extreme insult. I've heard it used too many times as a slur to be fooled into thinking that it can be harmless.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 18, 2007 07:01 pm

Quote:
my goal is to take the weight off of the word.


All by yourself?

Lenny Bruce was the first "social commentator" that I know of to promote that exact thing, almost 50 years ago. If you can, check out his routine on the subject. It may be on YouTube. Others, like George Carlin, have also made attempts. But these are/were white guys.

Except for academic references and such, "nigger" - yes, I typed it - will never be accepted when used by non-blacks. Ever.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Aug 18, 2007 08:51 pm

it already is, though, at times. it depends on which area of the country you live from what i've heard. and you've gotta be young. and of course, you can never use the final 'r' at the end of the word.


Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 18, 2007 09:52 pm

And don't forget to pluralize "nigga" with a z.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 18, 2007 10:35 pm

I know for Tuna and many of his friends, which include about 9 or 10 different races, it is a simple word used in a greeting. Sometimes used when discussing a missing or late comrade. Never have I heard it used in a derogatory manner by any of them. I am sure it still is used that way by many, but I am guessing around here it isn't.

As Lenny Bruce once stated. It is just a ******* word, it means nothing unless the user is a hurtful or mean spirited person.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


Aug 18, 2007 11:06 pm

It's not something I would use in casual conversation... however I have seen people seriously get their *** kicked in the military for using it... it's like a step above pointing a loaded weapon at someone on 'the beatdown scale'... of course Drill Sergeants are usually doing the beating so it's not heard after basic training... it's one of those things that can cause you to fall down staircases... :)


Idiot Kid
Member
Since: Sep 27, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:35 am

I'm a prep white boy. Always have been. Parents are from the north.

If you're cool with a nigga you can say nigga. Nigger is borderline.
Nigga is the nigga's "dude".
Man is the universal nigga/dude.

Nigger can piss some people off. I basically watch to see what the person themselves say and then adapt my vocabulary based upon that. If I speak correct and with my northern accent they will feel out of place, but if I go too far they will get offended. Gotta maintain the balance. Safety blanket is "Oh I didnt say nigger I said nigga, damn."

Now if only someone could tell me what P I G means? (No I dont mean a cop)

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:35 am

Noize, I've also heard kids in racially mixed situations banter the word about. Just like any social situation, you have to know your audience. Sensitivity about the dreaded N word probably won't evaporate before I'm dead, though.

I wish for a more enlightened time, when all ethnic and racial groups can have a sense of humor, and tolerate jabs.

It's very interesting that no one minds stereotyping the Irish as slovenly drunkards. The Irish themselves laugh at these same jokes. The humor is a part of Americana. Are they offended? No.

Before you say, "But the Irish hadn't suffered the same problems as..." WAIT. You're wrong. Look up some history. In the years following the Great Famine (1845-1849), the Irish were fiercely persecuted after coming to the United States. Most were regarded as lower life forms, even lower than Negroes (the term for blacks at the time). Yet, the Irish sense of humor endures.

“Can’t we all just… get along?”…. Rodney King, 1991.

I wonder.

Idiot Kid
Member
Since: Sep 27, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:41 am

Herb, sorry man, but...
I dont give a crap if your people suffered. You're heritage is great and all but currently you're American and you weren't in the Great Famine. (I just used you as an example, Im not trying to criticise you.)

I hate people who try to write off their attitudes and overreactive responses to things that they've only read in a book about.

I'm sure somewhere in those 200,000 past years all of our ancestors were oppressed.

Therefore in mine eyes nigger is no worse than cracker or spic.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:49 am

Quote:
Now if only someone could tell me what P I G means?


I believe it means PIG.

Idiot Kid
Member
Since: Sep 27, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:59 am

It has something to do with hustling or making money.

As I said, not the same thing as the word pig. Its p. i. g. (pee eye gee)

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 01:07 am

Your turn. Sorry. I speak Olde English.

www.rapdict.org/Main_Page

Idiot Kid
Member
Since: Sep 27, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 01:08 am

Haha its fine Herb. Mind translating to street some of Winthrop's journals?

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 01:15 am

Send them along. I'll be happy to convert them to Utsmelzese.

Member
Since: Apr 26, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 02:45 am

I'm going back to WYD's initial point, no it is not a dead word. I don't bother to say the "N" word. The word is nigger. It sounds harsh because it is and wrapped in hatred from its roots. Spic, kike, chink, wet back, gook, cracker, wop, none of these terms have made its way into acceptable society. But nigger is making the transition of acceptance? I got a better understanding of it when my grandfather (while in his 70's) explained to me why he never went back home to Mississippi even for a visit after leaving it as a young man. He spoke of lynchings, being degraded as a man, and being called a nigger as a way of life. I remember showing up at a place to play back in the 70's, to hear the (manager/owner not sure which he was) of the place say " oh you didn't say you had niggers in the band". I have to say for me the words not so old. And I don't let the use of it in music through ignorance cloud my vision. The fact that it has shock value says something in it self.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Aug 19, 2007 05:42 am

well, those words you listed were never put into songs, were never re-engineered to mean something else.

'gay' was. a lot of people say 'gay' when they mean lame. there's a movement afoot to substitute 'queer' (among offended gays) but 'ghey' has come along now. very few people are offended by this. it's become natural. so it can happen. there was no hophop equivalent back in the 1840s. if there was, maybe 'chink' would have taken on some different connotations.

everything is changing. i can't predict the future, but as noize says, there are now other uses for this word. there was that reality show, a few years ago. i think it was called 'black and white' or something like that. great show, i really enjoyed it. i remember the one black kid not understanding why his parents were upset by the 'n' word. his parents had to lecture him on it. i don't know; i think it's possible that some words can take on different meanings over time, and if this one ever does, it will be a good sign. but it will never happen until some generations come and go. i'd hate to think there'd still be this sort of racism in the future.

cracker is now mostly acceptable, by the way, as is redneck, but that's really no wonder.


Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 19, 2007 06:59 am

i just learned that cracker meant 'whip cracker'....and all this time, i thought it was because saltine crackers are white...

let it be know, i NEVER use the word as a dergaorty (even spell checker wouldn't work on that) word. it's a common word where i live, and i feel i'm dooing my part by NOT using it that way...

ppl can assign GREAT meaning to words, and that's their choice....on the racisism issue i feel i'm dooin' my part by "sucking the history" out of it.

words are words, and it's up to the individual to take it to heart. i've found myself goin' out of my way to prove it.....

it's just odd because before i moved from michigan to tennessee, my whole view of it HAS DEFINATELY changed.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Aug 19, 2007 07:39 am

hell a black buddy of mine calls me cracker all the time...

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 19, 2007 11:44 am

Quite frankly I do not like to use color as a descriptor at all. It is getting so I don't see in color. Sufice to say I and Sandy are vary pale in comparison to 90% of our neighbors. One joke we do make is when Sam the cat gets out and runs around sampling the neighbors flower gardens in the middle of the night. There I am wispering 'Sam" and trying to grab him as I am searching through the flowers right against my neighbors homes. I call the activity "honkey in the bushes". These differences are contrived, fabricated. To make any reference to these psudo-differences at all is purely ignorant in my books.

Jake and Tonisha, Mr and Mrs. Gore, came to the Vetrans Festival I played at. Tonisha was snubbed by many of the "cool" musicians there. Jake also caought a number of 'whats wrong with you" overtones. These cool musicians are all wearing purchased dog tags, purchased insignias, camo yada yada yada. Very few of them ever spent a minute in the miliary. Tonisha is in the Navy. None of us bothered to even tell these idiots. My next door neighbor Dell is my serogate father as mine has passed. I can't find, nore to I feel a need to look for a person with more wisdom, compashion, inteligence, etc. Tonya teaches special education in her home town in south Africa. She speaks the queens english and is truely a fine women in every respect. Out of my league. I feel privlidged that she spent a good deal of time talking with me at one of my wife's parties. Vishnu is a highly educated financial genious. He has taken me under his wing and I am convinced I could find no other source for this kind of training. I Russia a man personaly woke me at a 'hotel' as they did not have phones or alarms. The list goes on and is extensive. These human acts of kindness were not effected by skin pigmentation.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:34 pm

[quote]Herb, sorry man, but...
I dont give a crap if your people suffered. You're heritage is great and all but currently you're American and you weren't in the Great Famine. (I just used you as an example, Im not trying to criticise you.)

I hate people who try to write off their attitudes and overreactive responses to things that they've only read in a book about.

I'm sure somewhere in those 200,000 past years all of our ancestors were oppressed.

Therefore in mine eyes nigger is no worse than cracker or spic.[/quote]

He missed my point entirely. I wasn't whining about the past plight of the Irish. If anything, I was applauding them for getting over it and keeping a sense of humor about themselves. 'Nuff said.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Aug 19, 2007 12:41 pm

For the record, I'm exchanging my high horse for a slightly shorter one. I watched Chris Rock on Comedy Central last night, and I have to admit that his use of the word made me laugh. And I admit that Dave Chappelle has nearly made me wet myself with his use of the word as well.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 19, 2007 12:46 pm

Yeah. In one of Carlin's concerts, he said - paraphrasing - "Nobody cares when Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy say it, because everybody knows they're not racists...they're NIGGERS!

You could hear half of the audience laugh, and the other half gasp. Hilarious.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Aug 19, 2007 01:12 pm

Like many words it just depends on how it was used and whom it was said to.

I would imagine that a group of buddies that are black and white could freely exchange comments like nigger and cracker amongst themselves as they know they don't mean anything racist by it. Afterall they are friends. However, I don't recommend walking into an all black neighborhood using the N word to complete strangers.

Here in Canada it has hardly ever been used as a word whether intended as a racist comment or not.

Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007


Aug 24, 2007 05:25 am

Like Walt, I refuse to acknowledge that there is a difference in the shade of skin among people, unless, for some reason, the other person wants to bring it out as the point of discussion. Even then, unless it's a very compelling reason, I will stick to my color blindness of skin.

In the Air Force, I was the Rope (student leader) for a squadron of black fellas. Back then, there was still some segregation. But I had a blast! We played music, sang doo-wop, danced/marched all the way to school and back, and my guys could get into the cornfields and back out with the weed when the 'lighter shades of pale' couldn't. Yeah, those were the good days in Rantoul, IL.

Did I say they were black? Actually, I didn't notice after the first day.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 24, 2007 05:46 am

nigger...it's not a skin color, it's a state of mind.

Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007


Aug 24, 2007 06:06 am

That could be ... Very well could be. In that case the word NEEDS to be disemboweled and redefined, so, go for it. All the power to ya' dude. Tis an honorable endeavor to undertake.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 24, 2007 06:09 am

wish me luck!

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 24, 2007 09:29 am

Interesting thread. I don't propose to know the 'best' way to desentize the word. I suspect that like everything else each approach listed here will work with different people. Much like the carefully crafted sitcom with character composites aimed to maximize connectivity to the audiance. Everybody should have at least one that they can connect with.

I will say this, the politicians method of making it an un-word is in my opinion a bafoons approach. But then, I've never been a proponant of good-speak or politics.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 25, 2007 04:50 am

these freaks had a funeral for it!

ONLY in america can you pronounce a word dead.

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/322507_nword05.html

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Aug 25, 2007 04:51 am

i guess that settles the whole life after death debate.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 25, 2007 07:47 pm

Walk into a nightclub in south central L.A., start bandying the word about, and watch it miraculously spring back to life.

Member
Since: Apr 26, 2006


Aug 26, 2007 12:10 am

The point about this IS the history of the word and to say I want to desensitize it to me is like rewriting that part of history.

Webster added the definition(the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by Nazis...) to the word Holocaust.

That was added because of history. You can't desensitize the historical basis.

But I will say I don't know that you could have had a discussion this civil on this topic even 15-20 years ago. Now we can.

Thats a good thing.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Aug 26, 2007 12:59 am

"Mick" Fleetwood

Uncle "Kracker"

Time to get over the monikers.

That's all, folks.

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