dan... posted by whosyourdaddy00

dbmasters
Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Jul 08, 2007 01:54 pm

Noize and I were just talking about you (and this) on the phone a few minutes ago.

Short answer, I dunno...I will tell you something though, when I was single I was that guy too...and, at a certain point (I remember the day well) I woke up, rolled over in bed to do the ol' wake 'n bake, looked at the pile and thought "WTF?". That was the first time I really felt it hit me that I knew there was more for me.

That said, it didn't stop there, proceeding from that moment was a two year battle of fighting myself...but during that two years, things kinda fell into place...some friends started proving they really weren't, others (sometimes surprisingly) proved they were better friends than I gave them credit for...once I started trying to better myself, or chose not to go get drunk one night in favor hanging out with this new girl (who is now my wife) it's how they reacted that one could judge their value by.

The funniest part is once they weeded themselves out...things kinda changed naturally...kind of a story of God helping someone that was honestly trying to help himself.

Another rather funny part is that I still live in roughly the same area, so I still bump into these people from time to time. 10+ years later most of them are still doing the same jobs (if any at all) that they bitched about 10 years ago, still hanging with the same people encouraging each other to do nothing with themselves but knowing they have all the answers, married and divorced several times with kids in the wake...and look 10 years older than the actually are.

I told Noize on the phone "WYD has done so much and come so far for himself, if he could quit the drugs, or get 'em in check, just imagine what the kid could do?" To which Noize fully agreed.

It's not change you notice day one, but I will say this, it's the days that I bump into someone from the past I decided to part ways with that I am reassured I did the right thing 10+ years ago. It's not immediate reward, but it is reward...takes longer, but tastes better :-)

Dunno if that ramble made ANY sense at all, but there ya go.

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Jul 08, 2007 02:17 pm

yeah it does!

it's more of an alcohol problem that's holding me back the most, as far as i can tell....i can blow $120+ on one binge at the bar EASILY (keep in mind i'm buyin' shots for friends)

the smoke thing, well, that just isn't a major factor when it comes to 'holding me back', it's something that i have no plans of quiting *subject to change*, but that's not an addiction urge, i just love it.

i KNOW addiction....at first it was caffeine, i kicked the F out of it roughly 4 years ago...next nicotine, at least caffeine has an effect on you as a stimulant, but cigarettes are about the STUPIDEST thing man has ever created. now here's the funny part, i can go a day or two smoking less than 4 cigarettes NO PROBLEM....as soon as i get a beer, it's all over and i'll burn a pack in 6 hours!...next is THE big one, alcohol.....i used to joke in highschool and say "i look forward to alcoholism"

now i KNOW it's exactly the same as the others mentioned above....i couln't tell you the last time i've gone 72 hours (3 days) without a drop of some kind of alcohol.....not to justify, but alcoholism is on BOTH sides of my family. so i got that gooin' against me. add to that that most of my friends (which are SOLID, i have many long term friends, and am quite picky when choosing them) which are truely good friens, BUT they almost expect me to be mister 'balls-to-the wall'...not to say, that's why i do it, but i am famous for it in some circles.

if i could shake alcohol and tobacco, i'd be all right, i'm not much of a speed type person *although if i'm wasted, it does have a 'medicinal' purpose for sobering up* but that buzz just isn't my thing.

alcohol....i can't believe i'm really really addicted. i don't think, i'll get violent if forced to go with out, it'd just make my life really boring.

how did you overcome man? my parents are pusshin' for me to get married, have kids and all that...but it's just not me, but it DOES help keep a fun-lover inline.

dbmasters
Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Jul 08, 2007 02:33 pm

Quote:
now here's the funny part, i can go a day or two smoking less than 4 cigarettes NO PROBLEM....as soon as i get a beer, it's all over and i'll burn a pack in 6 hours!

Actually, that is incredibly common...half the friends I know that smoke say the same thing...they can quite pretty easily until they have a beer...than it's out the window.

I still drink, and I never "quit" anything...I just don't do it...after 10+ years I guess maybe I have quit, I just try not to say that cuz it's so definite and life isn't.

Not doing it was easy once I quit hanging out with people that do it from sun up to...ummmm, sun up...

Quote:
but that's not an addiction urge, i just love it

bahahaha, that would be up on the wall at any treatment facility as an all-time great justification. Not rippin on ya, just saying, a counselor would shred ya. It'd be right up there with the guy I was in with that said "pot isn't a addictive, that's stupid, hell, I do it every day and I am not addicted".

Oh, and by the way, any 12 step program sucks, it made me do nothing but want a drink...what a depressing place. But hey, when the judge tells you to go...

My main prob was pot and meth, pot was easy when outside of the crowd...meth, well, that was more of a physical withdrawal issue, that sucked, but the worse it got the more I realized how badly I had to quit...

Marriage isn't the be-all answer, it happened to play into the cards for me...I was looking for answers, a way out, God showed me in the form of a mate...of course, now the issue is getting my wife to realize I don't always WANT that same influence any more, I don't need help any more, I'm now happy with me...but that's another battle completely. :-D

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Jul 08, 2007 03:01 pm

two things, i can't just disassociate with my 'crowd'...we're too close. i keep long-term friends, others come and go, but my 'core' group...well i don't think i could quit hangin' out with them in the name of sobriety. they'd support that kind of decision, but i'd be forced to still be around it.

that isn't so much of a problem cuz they're not the type to try to push it on me...in fact, they'd get physical if i was having a 'weak moment' IF they knew I was committed. not much peer pressure (well of the spoken kind) the watching others partake may be considered pressure in and of itself.

two, weed is only psychologically addictive at best. if there's a 'dry spell'. i simply don't have it, not much craving past 'man i wish we had some'...no real physical withdrawals or anything.

as far as 12 step, yeah, i know what you mean, i know neither of us really give a damn for structured courses in these 'how to' groups.

not only that, the first thing they'd tell me is to quit the bar job! understandable, but the ppl there are like family to me. and it's good/easy/fun money that doesn't really feel like "work".

i donno, i'm just gettin' tired of chasing my tail and going nowhere....not really income-wise, but i'm living the same way i was when i was 19. not much in the progress department.

i donno, it's been a long day/night and it's gettn' harder for me to make sense, even to myself....bla!

thanks for the conv, though! i was glad to see you were online.

time for my 12 hour nap! awwwww yeahhhh

guitar_jim
Czar of Cheese
Member
Since: Jun 09, 2004

Jul 08, 2007 03:07 pm

Nothing really to add here... I'm just following the conversation and thinking about how lucky I am to never have steered down that path.

WYD...it sounds to me like you have a problem and you are standing on the edge of admitting it. You're walking a line and on one side is getting clean and on the other side is a downward spiral.

Without even knowing you, I have seen your talent and intelligence shine through in your posts. You have a lot to offer people around here, and I suppose as much to offer the people in your life.

I'm going to hope (and even pray) that something shove you over to the side of the line that gets you clean and sets you moving in the right direction.

dB, it's very decent of you to be honest and open with WYD. You've been there, you know what he needs to hear and what he needs to do. Good on you.

I'll butt out now.

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Jul 08, 2007 03:11 pm

thanks jim, i know what you mean....i am aware of my addictions, and am definitely not in denial, i just gotta figure out how to pull them in to keep myself in check....anyone else, feel free to chime in, not specifically about me and my life, but anything else relevant to the topic(s)at hand.

it's bed time, i'll check y'all when i wake up.

dbmasters
Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Jul 08, 2007 03:13 pm

Well, forgive me for being blunt, and possible mean (not intended) I find it somewhat disingenuous to talk out of one side of your mouth about wanting to grow and move forward (paraphrasing your "chasing my tail" as thats how I read it), but, then the other side of your mouth gives all the reasons you can't do what it takes to change.

Quote:
i can't just disassociate with my 'crowd'...we're too close.

You don't think I felt that way?

I was told something by a wise old man (the one good thing that came from the "counseling" I was forced in to) when I gave the exact same story about my group of "core" friends, and I impart this to you, that you will mock me for, tell me "you don't know me or my friends" (hopefully with the homegirl head spin and hand in the air for me to "talk to") and blow off...10 years down the road you will impart it to somebody else when you realize it to be true.

At the age and place in life you are, I believe you likely have no idea who your true friends are. Through childhood and early adulthood friends are based on different thing...you are standing on the edge of a cliff right now that someone or something WILL push you over. At the bottom you will wake up, bumped, bruised, with a splitting headache and a couple broken bones...as the bones mend you will have a "meaning of life" epiphany that will tell you everything you knew was wrong...

It is at that exact point you will become a man in the truest sense of the word. It's not about marriage, kids, responsibility (though for me thats what pushed me over that cliff) it's waking up and going "I get it"...and that doesn't mean you know it all, it means you know you don't know it all, but know you are going to head in the right direction to learn it. That you understand the world, people and society in a different way, and most of all, understand yourself.

Slowly your group will be pushed over this same cliff, paths will change into what each of you is meant to do with life...it's not that you won't be friends, it's not that you dislike each other, you just switch tracks and adult life kicks in.

The people that never wake up and have that epiphany are the dumbasses you bump in to occasionally in life that makes you glad you got pushed over the cliff.

I don't hate or dislike most of the people I blew off, I feel badly that they made some stupid choices and continue too and that they will not reap the full rewards life has to offer in favor of short term "fun" with people they only have superficial "friendships" with.

Hujambo
Member
Since: Aug 13, 2005

Jul 08, 2007 09:19 pm

A partner and having kids does'nt always keep people in check it depends on how much slack is on the rope.Having them around when others have pissed you off is great and you look after them by making sure they dont starve and have a home and feel safe, just doing that is rewarding. Booze does drain the funds and other stuff well that doesn't help. Some peeps would think I drink too much but I dont think that cause as long as I've been gigging it hasn't changed or increased.72 hours is a long time 'without' for me and can't remember the last time I've gone one day! It's better to drink bulky drinks (pints) cos those shots and spirits do liver damage and worse.I like em too but I always fill up with ale first for health reasons.Two friends I used to gig and drink with drank a lot of shorts and both had heart attacks which killed them.So control the drinks or they will control you. Hope this helps cos Im on the cider tonight;)

zekthedeadcow
Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002

Jul 08, 2007 09:24 pm

well, minus the alcohol and drugs, I'm pretty much in the same boat :)

28 with parents wanting grandkids and having no sense of 'moving on.' Plus financially, well... I CANT spend $150 on beer or anything else for that matter, I have problems holding onto money when I get it. But, I made a budget, and thats working well so far. My problem is actually WORKING and making money :P

I think I got a good plan to pull myself out. But most of it is emotionalesque 'be more confident, decisive, etc' while trying to figure out where I actually want to end up.

Hujambo
Member
Since: Aug 13, 2005

Jul 08, 2007 09:46 pm

Did six gigs last week and work was a struggle but I booked two days off in advance,nice:)yeah the budget thing is the key no matter how much you earn.When we played in Germany many moons ago we were really skint and had to rely on food that 'friends'gave us but the funny thing was we always had a bar tab at the gigs.The club owners liked this cos they could rip us off when it was time to pay up.

dbmasters
Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Jul 08, 2007 10:59 pm

Quote:
A partner and having kids does'nt always keep people in check

True enough, sometimes it just makes people lousy parents raising kids to be lousy adults...

Quote:
well, minus the alcohol and drugs, I'm pretty much in the same boat :)

...I got nothing...other than to say it's not only a different boat, it's a different fleet :-D

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 18, 2007 04:52 am

well, i've officially lost my first job due to my habbits.

first, just the facts:

this wasn't a sudden rash decision....the issue was me being up at 8am on a weekly basis....i've somehow managed to pull this WHILE leading a double life as "mr. fun guy"....

but, inevedibly, they caught on....and i got a rep. as beein' a few hours late from time to time.

in my defense, let it be known, i've been working two jobs 70+ hours a week and maintaining.

the funny thing is not a single client was affected by my tardiness......i work at a print shop, and i KNOW deadlines.

so we have parted ways (on VERY good terms) and i'm a gosh derned cook at a bar now.

did we tell you the name of the game boy? we call it riding the gravy train.

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 18, 2007 05:15 am

what a good re-read this thread was!

glnflwrs
Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007

Aug 18, 2007 06:02 am

WYD, You're just in your twenties? You had me fooled. Hehehe, you have a more seasoned or "been around the block" kinda' outlook, like you said.

My $.02 for whatever you can use it for...
When I was facing what you are, looking to move on and up, I faced many of the same choices you are. The group of longtime, loyal and true friends, a couple of indulgences I liked too much to give up, and too many reasons why I would never want to change my ways.

When I got to point of frustration I decided to get selfish. After all, I am the only one who really is looking out for me. No one else is going to help me as much as I can help myself. If they really are true friends, they will understand and support my decisions. And if they're not, I don't need them anyway.

I stopped going to bars, convinced myself that beer was nothing but rented water that turns to piss, and went about rebuilding myself in my own image. I figured if they were truly good friends, they would call to see what was up, and would come visit me at home.

I decided that as long as my boss was paying me my time at work belonged to him and whatever he said was law. If I had any problems with that, I figured it was time to find a new job.

Get selfish but not greedy and do those things that you know are best for you. Get just a bit conceited so you know you can succeed at what you do. If you make some progress acknowledge it and be proud of yourself, but if you slip up or don't move ahead as fast as you wish, don't beat yourself up about it. Figure out the reason for it, decide to try it again, and consider mistakes to be a learning experience, not stupid screw ups.

It's all about copping an attitude that says, "I'm going to do what will make my life better and anyone who doesn't like it, doesn't have to".

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 18, 2007 06:05 am

Quote:
Get selfish but not greedy

dude, that says it all!...

glnflwrs
Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007

Aug 18, 2007 06:15 am

If you can find it, read Ayn Rand's book, "The Virtue of Selfishness". It teaches how to look out for yourself without becoming a jerk.

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 18, 2007 06:20 am

that is a good catch 22

i't hard to lookout for yourself without becoming a jerk.

props!

pjk
Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Aug 18, 2007 07:44 am

Good post, Gln, nicely put.

I think my first real tech job was lost because of it. They didn't really come out and say, but I certainly gave them enough reason.

Funny how you think how alcohol can't be smelled the next day by anyone =/

Anyhow, I damn near lost my job 7 years ago from it too (about 12 years in between). I quit using on my own, and they let me know that I was >< this close to getting let go.

Glen's got it right: see what you want as your own makeup, and don't be kept down by weights. Character is developed.

Walt
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Aug 18, 2007 09:28 am

WYD
Ya didn't ask so forgive me if I'm out of place. I do appreciate you per our common HRC. You have answered your own question. Your 'demons' have not become a big enough problem for you to attend to. You have hinted at the circle of friends you have gathered around you but not accepted responsibility for those choices. That's the rub with. You can always find supportive people for your actions. Regardless of choice you can 'develop' a world where your actions are acceptable. So far what I have said conatates a rather dire scenerio. I don't have any idea how profound of a problem this has become for you. Only you can make that decision. So far from what I precieve your problems are primarily in the relm of monitary gain. I don't hear any mental, emotional, or physical degragation. "Growing up" is a phicle term. It means many different things to many different people. We change as we mature in terms of needs and wants. One can find themselves very unprepared and very unsatisfied with life if that process is not conducted with some semblence of continuity. Finding 'self' is an ongoing process. Who am I today? The key is to process through life gracefully. It isn't always easy.

dbmasters
Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 18, 2007 10:16 am

Quote:
the funny thing is not a single client was affected by my tardiness

So? I am laying odds your tardiness has affected the employer, and that is where the issue is. I personally would have fired you the second time being "hours" late.

TearsofSirion
acoustic riot girl
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2007

Aug 18, 2007 12:26 pm

everybody's got their "thing". for me it's pot, for a lot more people it's booze. i've watched the booze kill a lot of people's lives, and essentially kill my uncle. having kids or a girl won't stop the boozing if you don't want to-my son's father is living proof of that, although he's better and in his son's life now, it was hard for a long time. and he and i will never be "together" again, and that sucks for our son and has sucked for him in a lot of ways. alcohol is a hard demon to get away from. i "lost" a lot of "friends" in the past 6 years my son's been around either because i saw them for who they really were w/my new "mommy's" perspective or because they realized they had no business being around a kid. when you can't validate certain people because you have other responsibilities they usually go away. anywho i'm tryin to slow down on the pot, so if you need someone to talk to about that, let me know.

Noize2u
Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 18, 2007 10:23 pm

OK, my turn to give the big hug like WYD is fond of doing at times.

WYD, I only get to see what you do here. And you my friend do have a strong presence here. Some times it may just be a ramble of sorts, most times it is a valid and educational point for the member you are helping. I have seen you take the time to do some obvious research in order to give an answer to another member. That in itself shows that you are a dedicated person. Even though this is only an internet forum to help others, you give your time to be here and do it. And you obviously have the skill to learn and retain what you learned so that again is something that will get you were you need to be in the end.

Enough of the cheerful me, time to move on and up. Got 4 more tracks to finish by tomorrow night and all will be good. I'm glad can listen and type at the same time. And thank goodness for dual monitors.

glnflwrs
Head Knocker
Contributor
Since: May 20, 2007

Aug 24, 2007 05:50 am

Yeah Noize, this site would a bit poorer without WYD. Definitely a bit poorer.

whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 24, 2007 05:55 am

aww shuchks! nah...i DO have my wits about, but i easily stray. it's all good, i've got my bills paid, i'm debt free and am quite content with where things are now.....thing is, i'm not planing on the future....that's my next step.

i help when i can.