Are moniters really needed.

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Hindu Not Hitler !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Member Since: May 28, 2007

Tell me why. If it is worth for me to pend the money.

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Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 29, 2007 12:19 am

Yes. (Notice I wrote "Yes Period")

Even the best of headphones will not give you a true rendition of what will come out of a loudspeaker. This is not only in terms of spacial relationships, but how low and high end frequencies will actually be reproduced via a loudspeaker. I don't know how many times I have attemped to do a mix with headphones, only to listen later in my monitors and find that it was simply all wrong. Now for very 'microscopic' inspection of a waveform e.g. floor noise level, pin pointing aberent noises, headphones are indespensible. Having said that, there are some extreamly high end speakers sold as audiophile speakers that approach the quality of monitors in all aspects except spacial placement of sounds. Some folks like to use these as a part of the mastering process, along with almost any speaker they can use to ensure good playback on any system out there.

Now if your asking me to convince you that you must buy nearfield monitors, I can't. Like many things in life, you have to use the tool to understand it's importance. I was convinced after reading the first paragraph on almost any recording website I landed on. I'm damn glad I had the capacity to listen.

Sound Ninja
Member
Since: May 29, 2007


May 29, 2007 02:04 pm

Agreed, i noticed a world of diffrence between headphones and computer speakers. I suggest starting without a sub then add a sub if you need to hear more and wider ranges of bass. Im an alesis fanboy personlly but there are a lot of good monitors out there at a fair price.

Member
Since: Jan 24, 2006


May 29, 2007 03:48 pm

I don't agree at all that monitors are required. Now of course you don't give any indication of what you're doing musically but.....

Let me be clear, I'm not saying don't buy monitors, I just don't think they are REQUIRED.

You can learn to mix with headphones, you need to learn how a mix sounds with the phones compared to how it sounds in the car or on the stereo then adjust. For example, I learned that my headphones made the bass sound louder that other systems so I learned to not worry about the loud bass.

All this is written from the perspective of a home recorder, I do own cheap monitors but I don't use them much. Add to this that most of the music is heard on crappy MP3's and I'll stick by my answer.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 29, 2007 03:53 pm

I tend to agree with tony...but with the disclaimer of "it depends on your definition of required".

Do you have to have them, no, you don't...but then, you don't need music talent either, but it helps. The most important thing is that you know your environment...if you know the weak points of your current setup, and can therefore compensate for them, then you are good to go...

The thing with monitors is you have less to compensate for as you get better monitors.

I say that monitors are recommended (highly) but not required.

not the brightest spark...
Member
Since: Sep 13, 2005


May 29, 2007 04:56 pm

I'd say that monitors and headphones make the perfect bedfellows but, if you are mixing in a room with a bad or overtly coloured acoustic response, then a good set of headphones would be a good compromise.

Member
Since: Jan 24, 2006


May 29, 2007 05:06 pm

I think one other thing to expand on Dan's comment. I think top of the line monitors or even mid range monitors are more useful. But replacing headphones you know and love with some cheapo monitors probably won't help you much.

An outburst for perfection
Member
Since: Dec 11, 2002


May 29, 2007 05:48 pm


Good Headphones to me are a must for when you're panning.
Sometimes, I've panned a Guitar, say, 30% left, only to find it's way to stong and loud through my headphones. Plus...The world is headphone crazy.
I never used them untill I got a good pair, now I use both, (closed) Sennheiser HD250 and (Open) SENNHEISER HD600.

Member
Since: Jan 24, 2006


May 29, 2007 05:59 pm

Yes Murphy raises another point that I forgot (old age).

A huge percentage of your listeners will be listening on headphones these days so they remain very important.

One could argue that mixing for MP3 sound quality and headphones is going to get you a wider audience today.

Hindu Not Hitler !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: May 28, 2007


May 29, 2007 06:40 pm

So do I need moniters if I am playing it out of my computer?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 29, 2007 06:42 pm

How did this thread not already answer that question?

Hindu Not Hitler !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: May 28, 2007


May 29, 2007 07:07 pm

sorry it takes me a while to understand things.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


May 29, 2007 08:26 pm

i'm a die-hard monitor lover....someday, every speaker in my house will be a 'monitor' of some sort.... consumer speakers are designed to sound good, and they tend to flatter both the upper range and lowerange (think of a graphic eq in the shape of a smile)...to the ear, it's pleasing...but if you're making decisions on where problems are in your mix, that same flattery can mask where the problem lies....good monitors sound like crap, and you have to work to get your mix to sound good on 'em....

now, yes you can mix on decent consumer speakers (well made and probably more expensive than a sony boom-box) as long as you learn them well.

to me, the biggest difference is in the transient response. consumer speakers are slower to respond to quick loud transients (this is where 'clarity' and 'detail' is heard) in-turn, the stereo imaging is blured and widened to a point where the sweet spot is designed to fill as much space as possible...this is GREAT if you are having a party in your mixing room, but it's like wearing sunglasses in an already dim room....it makes things hard to 'see'.

as for headphones.....there are two HUGE drawbacks, first and formost is the proximity effect they have due to the fact that they're so close to your ears...that gives you a false and often exaggerated sense of bass that may or may not really be there....the second is the exaggerated (and unnatural) stereo field....if you listen to a mono signal in cans, it sounds like the sound is coming from right behind your eyes, instead of right infront of you....if you make panning decisions with that kind of false stereo image, you'll over compensate.....go to a music store with several nearfield monitors set up and step back about 5 feet and you WILL hear detail in music that you never heard before....if you've got a 5 foot horizontal 'listening plane' you can spread out many more tracks across that 5 feet, than you could in the 6 inches between your ears.


sure i check mixes in phones (compressor settings are really easy for me to hear), but i wouldn't rely on just them....

it all depends on how well you want your mix to translate across other listening systems....monitors save me butt-loads of time because i can make my decisions faster without having to run out to my car and see if things still sound the same...i know they will.

i ALWAYS check my my mixes on three systems, monitors, cheap azz PC speakers (with sub) and phones....if all is well in them, i can take my mix outta the house with confidence.


my take

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004


Jun 06, 2007 05:21 pm

If your looking decent all around good monitors, try Event V 20/20

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 06, 2007 06:57 pm

i love my 20/20's and plan on upgradin' to the ASP6's when (if) something should happen to them....i'm sold on smaller monitors.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jun 06, 2007 07:07 pm

I gotta agree with WYD, the more I hear the smaller, well designed speakers the more impressed I am.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 06, 2007 07:22 pm

yeah, i was dead set on gettin' 8's for the 'deeper bass' and mixed on 'em, well, 5 years now, and had a major realization when i was at a big store and heard my same monitors from about 7 feet back, i learned i've been mixing on mid-field's! all this time i've had them right in front of me (like in my pic)....so i'm definately gooin' for smaller ones next time, and really, most of these little buggers commin' out now are really nice, and the price, ya can't beat it....i think i paid almost a grand for my Events (after tax)....now you can get some sweet deals for a little more than half of that....i'm really interested in the "mix cubes" Electronic Musician (or maybe Mix mag) gave a HUGE thumbs up of a review on these guys (they sound alot like NS-10's)....so really my next monitor is prolly gonna be one of those (i've decided i don't want a stereo pair) but yeah the mid-range focus on 'em is EXACTLY the sound i need because my Events got the high's and low's covered.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 06, 2007 07:32 pm

emusician.com/monitors/em...ntone_mixcubes/

found it! i love the internet

my god i had no idea how cheap they are! 200 bucks gets you a pair!

Member
Since: Apr 26, 2006


Jun 06, 2007 10:07 pm

The mix cubes sound like cool tool, found this.

www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storyCode=15945

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jun 06, 2007 10:10 pm

WYD, I listened to a pair of those. And although I don't find them nearly sounding like NS-10's I liked them. Actually muhc more then the NS-10's which to my ears and many others I know were the red headed step child of near fields. They were hideous sounding things. But they were proper as they did give you an idea of what it might sound like on consumer electronics. With the electronic music I have mostly created over the years they were the worst monitor to use ever. Thus is the fact of how I ended up with the KRK monitors in the end after way to many pairs.

As well though I do agree with the fact these new little buggers are just perfect for close field desktop listening. I bought the boyz a pair of the M-Audio Studiophile Bx-5a monitor's and really was impressed with them as close field monitor's. Nice round flat sound. A good midrange sound for sure.

But hell ya, those little mix cubes are killer and I want a pair as well.

Member
Since: May 10, 2007


Jun 07, 2007 07:16 pm

WYD said it all! Totally agree!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 07, 2007 07:35 pm

wrong thread rob! haha

j/k

Member
Since: May 10, 2007


Jun 07, 2007 10:03 pm

:)) hahaha



Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jun 08, 2007 10:21 pm

OH ya, and if you follow Bluesdues link you can find them at about $169 a pair.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 09, 2007 03:13 am

man, i really wanna get these now....my car just got back from the doctor this week (tranny transplant) and is dooin' fine now....unfortunately, what little money i had has completely disappeared!

DOH!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jun 09, 2007 04:26 pm

Ya, its not like I'm gonna run right out and buy a pair either. It would mean adding another friggin power amp here, and I just can't justify it at the moment. I have plenty of CD media so burning a CD to tryout on several different units is still working here.

Member
Since: Jun 10, 2007


Jun 10, 2007 09:48 pm

I say: Use what you`re mixing for; that is, your target medium.

If you intend for your music to only be listened to on headphones, then mix only on headphones, and adjust your mix accordingly.

If part of your audience is going to listen on monitors, as would mostly be the case, then listening on carefully placed monitors with a good frequency response is going to be crucial for placing things in your mix, in the stereo field etc., You just won`t hear things the same way through headphones.

If you`re gearing for a general audience, then you`re going to have people listening on ipods, car stereos, etc., and it might be a good idea to give your mix a listen on as many different systems as you can to check out how they sound there.

The more experience you have, the more you`re going to have an idea of what a balanced sound will "sound" like, and if your monitors and/or headphones are lacking, you`ll be aware of that and know how to compensate.

Also, adjusting a mix so that it will sound good on different systems to a wide range of ears is what mastering engineers specialize in.. so it`s well worth your while, if you want a mix to sound good, to get another set of ears involved that have experience in making those final adjustments which can make a BIG difference.


diyhomestudiomusician
Member
Since: Aug 14, 2007


Aug 14, 2007 10:57 am

Hi, I bought a pair of Samson Rubicon R5As. Mastering with them is a breeze,there is no doubt about how your mix is going to sound on any cd player.Personally, I never was able to get a good mix with nothing but headphones. Monitors take all the guess work out and save time. Just my humble opinion.
Best wishes
Creek

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Aug 14, 2007 11:11 am

Wow, those mix cubes sound great. Only $169 a pair?? Hmm, I gotta do something with my setup and maybe this is the answer. I like my M-Audio's because I'm really used to them but I know that they don't translate well.

Does anyone here have those mix cubes?

I'd love to get some NS10's but they are out of my price range. I've also been eyeing the Rokits but same deal... to expensive for now.

I can get the occasional good mix by using headphones but I still have to use the monitors for a bit of touch up. Wearing headphones gets a little fatiguing as well.

Singer / Songwriter
Member
Since: Jul 18, 2007


Aug 14, 2007 10:19 pm

I would have to say calvin that using as many different sources are gonna help you get a good medium on your sound. Using a real good head set is great, but doesn't always sound the same on a loud speaker, and the other way around. Computer speakers sometimes don't give you that wide range, and you tend to turn up the sound which can lead to ear fatique. 'Blue Sky' makes a small 2:1 package for about $350. It has nice highs and mids, along with a sub on the floor that you can control if you want it on or off.

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