Going to the next level
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Posted on Apr 18, 2007 12:39 pm
John_Wesley
Amature Songwriter/Producer
Member Since: Apr 04, 2007
Recently, I purchased a ReMOTE LE which I never could get working with my system. So, this brings a certain delima. . . I could return the ReMOTE LE, possibly forfitting all abilities of MIDI use due to my systems inadequacies, or I could just start from scratch and take my system to the next level. Well, like a kid armed with a $10 bill in the candy isles of a gas station, its for me to step it on up-- because living past today is never a garuantee, and I want to be producing something I can sell on iTunes and make people smile.
Ok, enough of that, here's what I'm looking at:
-I just put in an ebay bid on a used Digidesign 002, in doing so, making me no longer Cubase dependent and make me one of those anoying ProTools users who is always trying to downgrade your SX3.
-VOX mic. . . I'm currently using a "Project Studios B3" Condensor. It does not pic up the warmth I am told that my live voice has. . . I end up playing with the EQ for days. Would a better mic fix the tin in the recording voice. . . should I dampen the walls with old quilts. . .? I don't know the answer, but I want to fix it.
-New Computer. . . a recording buddy of mine is in IT (not the movie) and he makes an amazing, recording specified computer on the cheap. He says, I'll end up with a duel core AMD, 4 gigs ram,optical ins/outs (want to learn more about that one), firewire, yadda yadda-- the rest is giberish past that. I'm also definitely moving towards side by side LCDs. . . some of those plug-ins, like EZDrummer, can be incredibly space consuming with its drag-and-drop utility. What else should I make sure I have on this machine, besides a quiet HD and shell?
I know I want to go to the digi 2, hence the bid, but I am looking for the end result. . . what else can I do to ensure that my vocal recordings are going to be impecable (besides having a vocal talent). I've been able to trick the guitar tracks into sounding good via duplication of tracks, panning, and eq tweeking to give it that dynamic, full effect.
Any advice out there for me? This is a big upgrade and to be honest I'm a little nervous.
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Apr 18, 2007 12:49 pm Well, I could help you tweak your vocal tracks if you can hook me up with random keg girl from the photos in your gallery :-)
I doubt any difference will be noticed due to your software change from Cubase to PT (other than the noted further slide into the dark side), however the difference in the hardware between your current Omega and forthcoming 002 could be pretty substantial. I am betting there is a large difference in preamps and such in the 002.
The difference between live and studio may simply be the difference between a live room and the preamps on your Omega and the room in which you track them...
The fact you mention PT and how it makes you not dependent on something else kinda cracks me up :-D One does generally not hear PT mentioned in that manner as it makes you FULLY dependent on DigiDesign and their proprietary plugins and whatnot.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 18, 2007 01:10 pm Without hearing anything, I'd say a good mic and good preamp is your ticket to a great vocal track, not the 002.
B3 was mentioned by the SP guy as more of an accurate mic, not a colored mic. Not as good for vocals as the C line (course, it is said without hearing the singers voice).
ALso, trying to match a voice to a mic without trying and hearing is like matching a dress to a woman you've never seen. Very big chance that you'll be wrong =), or at least, not as right as you'd hoped.
The 002 will give you other benefits, so it's certainly not a 'BAD' thing, just throwing out possibilities.
And like dB mentioned, you'll be stuck with digidesign, no VST free plugins, only the hi-$$$ RTAS stuff.
Apr 18, 2007 01:15 pm Quote:
Without hearing anything, I'd say a good mic and good preamp is your ticket to a great vocal track, not the 002.
My basic point was just that, the 002 I would guess has substantially better preamps than the Omega...and the mic, while maybe not optimal for his use (I am not expert on mics at all) it certainly isn't a bad mic. Simply switching to the 002 I would be curious to see what, if any, improvement just that gives.
John_WesleyAmature Songwriter/ProducerMember
Since: Apr 04, 2007
Apr 18, 2007 03:50 pm I've noticed that when I record my guitar tracks, I get a fantasic sound by coupling the B3 with a simultaneous line-in recording on another track, then of course duplicating, panning, eq trickery, etc.
Vox Mic, I have recorded vocals on defferent mics much much out of my price range which give a more 'colored' recording (At least I think it was the mic that made the main difference, but it was in a pro studio, so there are almost countless other factors which could have come into play, from the their high dollar pre's to any post-production plugs they may have used). I just havn't quite got the right formula yet for my vocals. I think I'm going to wait and see what difference the 002's pre's make, then go from there (which the bid on the digi 2 ends at 6pm. Currently I'm the high bidder, but there are 34 previous bids, so I may get kicked out in the next few hours). At any rate, I'm just lookin at my other options for mic or pre-amp upgrades as well.
I guess I would be miss-speaking if I were to say that the d2 would make me less dependent-- I just know what it brings to the table, and it definitely would take me to the next level gear-wise. Also, I have a recording friend who lives in Philli (I'm in Alabama) who uses PT also. We do a lot of writing together through skype and listen to each other's mixdowns when we need fresh ear opinions. This would give us the possibility of sharing project files to manipulate our mixes. It would eat up a bunch of transfer space on my current web server provider doing that, but could also prove to be invaluable as a co-writing tool, just making the switch to PT alone.
I'm 85% sure that I'm not going to be the winning bidder at 6pm. If that proves to be true, what other interface/mixers do you guys use?
Apr 18, 2007 03:54 pm I started using Line 6 KB37 and love it...it does everything easily and relatively inexpensively. I do all my mixing on the PC, and only record one thing at a time so I personally don't need anything like the 002's multiple inputs or anything like that.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 18, 2007 04:05 pm maudio has a desk that looks pretty nice, if you're going for the desk-type thing. The project mix i/o.
Maudio has been pretty stable and decent for a lot of home enthusiasts.
Plus, you can get m-powered protools for it, i think. M-powered isn't real protools, but it may be close enough for you and your bud to work with.
Oh yeah, quilts on the walls may help, to remove some of the high end echo. Plus, it's probably free, and easy to try.
Then again, if you're mostly looking for improving the vocal takes, you could get a mic / preamp combo for the same money area (i'm thinking around 1k$) that would really give you some tracks to work with. I'm thinking 500 for a mic, and 500 for a preamp, but it's certainly flexible.
I think coolo dropped for a Neumann, and said it was the one best thing he did to improve his vocals. I'd love to try one out someday.
John_WesleyAmature Songwriter/ProducerMember
Since: Apr 04, 2007
Apr 19, 2007 07:18 pm Well I got to thinking about it and decided it would be a bit rash of me to jump into the digidesign stuff and subsequently was not competitive after being outbid.
Now I'm very interested in PreSonus FireStudio. I think I have also decided that should I choose a switch to protools with my new rig, I may just go all out and get the 003 rather than some used 002 put through god knows what kind of abuse, but that would involve droping over $2k, which I'm not totally sure is my 'next level'.
I'm understanding that with each upgrade to the next level(s) comes the need for much more thoughtful consideration. I'm definitely switching to a fire-wire interface, but which one is the right one? If I were to get the FireStudio ($699 at Zzounds.com with excelent reviews), there is a 'Monitor Station Remote' that is available for $200 which gives some advantagous control features such as a talk-back; making easier the comunication with the self-concious guitar player in headphones wondering what we're all laughing about in the other room.
The FireStudio seems to be an obvious choice right this second, but I definitely feel like I've not done my homework to the extint I need to. I could go cheaper, like one of Line 6's products and just get a nice pre-amp. . . I just don't know.
The search continues.
PS: You guys have been incredibly helpful, I apologize for my not giving many contributions to the forum just yet-- I intend to as my abilities progress.
John_WesleyAmature Songwriter/ProducerMember
Since: Apr 04, 2007
Apr 20, 2007 10:45 am That's the one. . . I would really like to have a mixing console to work on my mixes though, so I'm not sure if this set up would allow that. If it would I can't figure out how. There must be some type of usb or midi controller which provides this as a possibility. . . perhaps even the ReMOTE 25 LE could have its knobs asigned to the volume faders. . .
Apr 20, 2007 11:00 am If you really want that type of "mixer" feel, then I would...damn, am I really saying this...lean toward getting the Digi002 withe the control surface, not the rackmount thing...or any of the other control surface/sound device combo units.
Actually, in poking around zZounds, it seems something like www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--MDOPROJECTIO would be perfect, lots of I/O, it's firewire, it's an inteface and a control surface in one unit...pretty much everything you want, plus it will work with the "m-powered" protools (which has had mixed reviews) as well as all the other apps like Cubase and Sonar and such...
Might be worth a look for ya. The couple reivews at zZounds read pretty well.
John_WesleyAmature Songwriter/ProducerMember
Since: Apr 04, 2007
Apr 22, 2007 05:32 pm I did take a look at the M-Audio link above. . . the only problem with purchasing that is that the 002's are going for about the same price. The one I put my bid in on went for $1,125.
Here's the thing. . . the longer I look at the Digi 002, the more and more tempted I am to say ta'hell with it, lets just get the 003 brand new-- yeah its about a grand past my 'next level', but I don't think I'd have to upgrade for a decade. . . at least not in the interface dept. Then the majority of my future upgrades would consist of new mic's, plug-ins, and maybe some pre's.
I just feel like my balls are in a blender, and if I make the wrong decision, someone's gonna pure my boys. This is the most money I've spent on this hobby of mine at one time. Indecision 2007.
Apr 22, 2007 05:34 pm Quote:
but I don't think I'd have to upgrade for a decade
Yeah, I remember saying that when I upgraded to a 2.5 GB hard drive...that lasted a year...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 22, 2007 07:41 pm Hey John, indeed this has been a good thread on the good and bad of both sides of the fence of upgrades and the like.
I'll jump on the mic thing first. It is not only the room it is in, but can be the cable, pre amp and everything in between. A room can wreck even a good mic signal as can a bad cable or a low grade pre amp. Although as you stated it can be fixed to an extent once recorded, or warmed up I guess is a better statement.
Depending on your PC rig, yes indeed a new faster PC will help a great deal on getting things up to speed. And the 002 or 003 will need that for sure.
I wont bash PT too hard here, but dB did mention that open ended Digi is not. Once you go that route you are tied to it. There are no free or cheap third party pluggins for FX at all. And what they supply is not all that to be honest.
The Firestudio is indeed a nice unit and for the most part is easy to use and set up. If your friend is building the new PC for you make sure the Mother Board has an TI firewire chipset on it or Intell I believe works as well. Most firewire interfaces do not like the odd ball chipsets that are on some MoBO's.
Kind of a pity too as my buddy Ben who owns a couple of Music Go Round stores just sent the big M-Audio unit out the door for a little under $800 which was pretty much brand spanking new.
John_WesleyAmature Songwriter/ProducerMember
Since: Apr 04, 2007
Apr 23, 2007 10:18 am I'm definitely going to build a new PC, and probably just going to build my own custom recording desk, but still cannot make a final decision on what I'm going to do about my interface. Those are good tips about the firewire chipset, I'll make sure not to get tripped up on that one; bc I'm definitely moving to firewire. . .
does anyone know anything about the Mackie Control Universal Pro stuff? They look pretty solid, but their website doesn't explain all aspects of the board very well. . . the site doesn't even have a picture of the back of the unit-- red flag to me, but it's a sexy looking unit, and the name 'mackie' goes a long way with every musician I've ever met, but only in conversation of live-rigs.
Also, M-Audio scares me for some reason. I bought their 49e controller and the USB-out broke off inside the unit after about a week. That's one other reason to move towards the digi 00X.
Looks like I'll be resting on this one for little while longer. . .meanwhile I'm totally out of commission.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 23, 2007 06:40 pm John, I do but I will be out with the scouts tonight. If I get back in time I'll try and give you a little info on it, as well as the M-Audio unit.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 23, 2007 09:12 pm First I will state that the Mackie MCU and MCU Pro are control surfaces only. There is no audio interface on these units, they are for DAW control only.
John, I'll assume you went to this page. www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/splash.html
Which is the page for the as of yet, unreleased MCU Pro rig. That is why there are no real pictures of the back end. It hasn't been built yet, or at least not sent to production I should say. If you go here, www.mackie.com/products/mcu/index.html and scroll down there are pix of the rear of the original MCU which should be similar to what the new MCU Pro will look like. Although I do believe the Pro version will have 4 (don't quote me on that) USB plugs rather then the pair of midi i/o ports. The control protocol will be slightly modified as well for better, quicker set up and communication. I have not yet heard the release date on the Pro unit but the original MCU will still be produced for awhile and is a good unit as well.
If you are looking to do the control and interface in one unit then the M-Audio unit is probably the best bet for now. Although Mackie does have an option for their Onyx series mixers which adds a firewire i/o that will send all 16 channels and the stereo mains out the firewire port straight from the mixer, essentially giving you 18 channels going to the DAW.
