recording bass guitar
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Posted on Mar 22, 2007 12:46 pm
timfingers
Member Since: Jan 22, 2007
Hey folks,
I have a general question on bass guitar recording for anyone who may have some suggestions.
I run Cubase SE, My board is a Multimix 16 Firewire. My bass is a mid 80's fender percision with active electronics. I get great tone through My amp (old ampeg v4 with svt bottoms) although Im not expecting to capture that kind of tone on disk.
Anyway, my question is. What is the recomended set up for getting a good editable bass tone? I never seem to be happy with it. Also, is it correct to assume that My bass having active electronics is OK to go direct in (no red box).Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks,
timfingers
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TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 22, 2007 12:55 pm I generally will go 'direct' (i.e. no amp/speaker), but I tend to use a direct box or emulator (SansAmp Bass Driver DI or my Tri-AC) to add some 'oomph' to the signal.
If you are DI challenged, try a VST called Helian 1st Bass (or even 2nd Bass, but it's a little dirtier). www.kvraudio.com/get/1933.html
It's a free VST that has a nice Ampeg B15/Acoustic 360 type sound to it (you can get it close to SVT, but it's a bit 'rounder'). Should give you a nice amped sound.
Mar 22, 2007 12:56 pm I'd record two tracks, one direct and one mic from the cab, then mix to taste. A modeler like a POD may well help a great deal as well.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 22, 2007 01:04 pm Active pickups direct into the mixing board should sound pretty good, grabbing a signal from the amp as suggested and mixing to taste would probably sound great.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 22, 2007 07:09 pm I record direct with an ART Tube MP Studio, which Musician's Friend just marked down to $30, which is actually a pretty good price for a bass DI. They market it as a tube mic preamp but it sucks the highs out of microphones. Makes a great bass DI though.
SansAmp is definitely a very popular and resoundingly applauded direct box for bass also. I hear nothing but good things about them.
Mar 23, 2007 12:43 pm i have to agree w/ the guys, direct conect sounds the best. just try it : throw a mic on the bass amp and record. you'll see that it often becomes muddy w/ a flat tone; then try it plugged directly. you'll get a good tine and then u can tweak it later to "beef it up"!!
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 23, 2007 01:04 pm Man Tad you are so right. I love my ART V3 but for vocals it just aint right unless I'm singing real soft. Bass tracks on the other hand sound great through it as do acoustics mic'd through it. Alas, a distorted guitar is a big no no, sounded like @#$%.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 24, 2007 12:30 am DI out of a Fishman Platnum, NT1 front of cab, D112 at rear of cab. Mix to taste. Serve with some compression.
Mar 24, 2007 09:58 pm I normally run a D.I. and mic the cab. I have just used a mic though. A Sennheiser 421 works great, a B-52 will do the trick as well. I'm not a big fan of just running a line in. But, then I like the attack you get with a mic.
Mar 28, 2007 10:05 pm WOW, Great response to my post. I apprieciate all the suggestions. Sorry it took so long to respond. Ill probably try them all. Im just like that. I don't have a senn 421 but I do have the antares modeler. which is a pretty cool sim. Still not the same though. Thanks again all.
TIMFINGERS
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 29, 2007 01:10 pm Welcome...
As you can see from the above thread, there are so many ways of doing it. All give acceptable results. All are valid. All may not work for you. Remember that pretty much everyone has tried lots of different ways and found something that works for them. I urge you to do the same. Try lots of different way, and then pick the one/s that work for you.
Man, I love the sound of a V4. Have you tried going pre-amp out into your mixer?
Mar 29, 2007 06:55 pm yeah tap that signal from the V4!! man i'd definately mic your rig though, that's a nice setup you got...when i go right from my bass (Pedulla) to the computer it sounds like crap, but if you must, i'd get a signal from the V4.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 29, 2007 07:28 pm A Pedulla that sounds like crap?
Man, that's a b*tch. I thought those things sounded sweet!
I know it's probably just when you go direct, but I'd be really upset.
V4's are the bomb.
Mar 29, 2007 07:36 pm yeah, i was quite shocked...i was in a studio in florida tracking a bit part for a friends band, and i was all "b.s. this is a 2500 dollar instrument! what do you mean you can't get a good tone!"
it's wierd, also i had a killer rig (trace elliot head, heartke 4.5xl and a fender 2x15 PA subwoofer, and i played that for years, one day i plugged it into a Laney tube guitar head, through an old beat up fender bass cab (also 2x15) and i had the tone from God himslef! i was shocked that a 500 dollar guitar rig sounded better than my sweet gear.
just goes to show ya...
Mar 30, 2007 11:06 am Hey whos
Always loved trace elliot gear too. I get tone from the GODS live (with the v4-b). Pretty enough to warm the coldest MOJO, But i haven't been able to duplicate that in the studio. This is why I started this string, to get as much input for recording application as possable. What kind of Mic's did the studio use. Was the signal split what kind of periferals. You know the details. LIVE tone is often illusive, Elusive, alusive,(pick one you know what i mean)in a studio environment. thanks for your post dude.
TIMFINGERS
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 30, 2007 11:46 am Also, think of the differences between live tone and studio tone. Live, you're hearing your rig in a certain environment, with your ears quite a ways away from the cabinets. Then think of studio recording where you stick a microphone right up against the grille. Keeping that in mind it should make sense why its difficult to reproduce a live sound on a recording...you're picking up the bass rig's sound from completely different perspective.
To get a good rich, full bass sound, I'd maintain that a direct inject would be a big part of that. Or maybe even a kick mic right up against the grille.
But to get the "feel" of the bass rig itself, like what you hear on stage, maybe you need to blend that direct signal with a room mic that will capture the sound of your rig in space. Maybe stick an LDC out in the room somewhere so that it picks up some room atmosphere.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 30, 2007 12:00 pm Or around the corner, behind something, etc. Keep trying goofy mic placements. The mic will hear things way different than you ears.
I've heard some will record a room mic on drums from behind a door, with the door open ~2". So try different places all over your room, ceiling, walls, corners (maybe not), behind, like Walt says, etc.
Mar 30, 2007 01:40 pm I almost always end up using the direct feed for bass...it's the only way I can get a tight bass sound. I always put up a mic but rarely use that track in the final mix.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 30, 2007 01:44 pm Same here, I have mic'd the cab, ran a direct and also ran a room mic all at the same time. The direct got used.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 30, 2007 01:58 pm One thing I've started to do lately is to put a mic (an SM57 works for this...) on the neck when you record direct. That way you mix in just an iddy-biddy-widdle-bit of 'fingers' and it sounds more alive.
Gotta say that the Tri-AC is beginning to get some serious use instead of the Bass Driver DI. It really does capture the SVT sound quite well. It's an amp sim, but not a speaker sim so I'll use VST's for that - just to add some air.
I've never been a fan of Trace-Elliot amps for some reson. I just have trouble finding my tone with their stuff. I guess it's great for the active bass/slappity-slappity-pop stuff, but I do very little of that. I'd much rather have a nice Ampeg-like sound. Season to taste....
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 30, 2007 02:30 pm TallChap, if that BassDriver ever falls into a state of not being used, I'd gladly take it off your hands!
Mar 30, 2007 03:52 pm I'm with TallChap, I'd rather have the Ampeg sound myself. Line 6 has some great modeling sounds in it's POD and TonePort units...might be worth a try if you have trouble getting a good sound.
Apr 05, 2007 09:49 pm Peavey 130 TNT preamp out into board, compressor in line just a little...
Apr 06, 2007 02:44 am I would recommend to record the bass cabinet and also the bass line. The bass drum kind of mics also work nicely on the bass amplifiers, and also try to record the line of the bass using a direct box and a tube preamp, that adds some warmth to the instrument.
