I was decieved by Dell!

> > > I was decieved by Dell!

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Member Since: Dec 03, 2006

Hello All,

I purchased a Dell this past May. I selected what I thought was the SB Audigy Sound Card upgrade with plans to get back into home recording when I found the time. Seemed like that was the right choice then. Fast forward to last week. Went to hook up my Keyboard and found no connector for my midi cable. I stumbled on this website researching workarounds. Got some help from Noize which led to purchasing a MidiSport USB cable which worked fine but with a latency problem. Noize suggested downloading ASIO Drivers which led to the discovery that what I actually purchased from Dell was Creative's "Integrated" Audigy Software Suite and ehannced softare audiodriver..... NOT an SB Audigy Sound Card. What I found out today is I actually purchased an integrated SigmaTel Sound Card, not sure yet which one maybe 9200. I'm thinking now this probably the source of my latency problems. Good chance this card won't support the ASIO drivers. I need to give Dell a call tomorrow and try to get some answers.

If interested, here's the link where I found some of this information. www.direct2dell.com/one2o...08/06/1510.aspx

Does this ring true with anyone reading this? Any chance this sound card is actually acceptable for basic recording? Audio recording seems OK it's just Midi that I'm having a latency problem with.

I'm so pissed at them for the amount of time I've spent to find this out and myself for not taking the time to learn about the sound card before purchasing.

Scott.

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Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 05, 2006 10:18 pm

I'd be suprised if they helped you out any, being 7 months later. Hopefully they help you out.

In the event that they dont, I'd look at the maudio line, or ESI stuff. They both have 2 in and 2 out cards, with midi. Lots here have had good luck with both.

Just disable your onboard sound, and only use the installed card, and you should be swell.

I know, it's not a great answer, but it will get you up and running well with good converters, and good midi.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 05, 2006 10:55 pm

Scott, I don't know why that didn't ring a bell when you posted the Sigma Tel drivers showing up in the other thread. Now it makes sense though indeed.

I will agree that they indeed misled you in thinking you were getting something better when indeed all you were getting was software.

That would truly explain the latency then for sure. Keep us posted and we'll get you going one way or another.

And we can talk a little smack about Dell if you would like. We love to abuse liars and cheats. :-)

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 05, 2006 11:44 pm

Thanks Noize, I'll for sure keep you posted. This thread will be like a shoulder to cry on......

I'm thinking about trying the ASIOALL drivers I found out about on the Reaper Forum. The FAQ suggests the drivers will not overwrite any existing drivers only previous versions of itself. Once installed they can be selected if compatible within the software. I may read up on that.

Another path would be to accept this Card is not going to do what I want and get a new one like PJK suggests above and spend my time researching that. If I go that route would I still need the Midisport USB? My my original Midi Cable that plugged into my joystick port on my old SB Live card should work on a higher end card right? I have $200 to spend at Funky Daddy's so I could get the card there.

Thoughts?

Scott.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Dec 06, 2006 06:18 am

Yeah, try ASIO4ALL, even so, the Creative Audigy wouldn't be the best for latency. Though some people do well with it, some don't, and even if you got what you ordered, I suspect the "integrated Audigy" wouldn't be really the same performance as a standalone PCI card.

That said, Dell screwed you, and that sucks, I'd raise hell, tho it likely won't do loads of good, sadly.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 06, 2006 08:10 am

OK, it's clear to me I need to get a new sound card. This "Integrated Audio Chip" isn't going cut it so I just want to move on. So the next question is which one should I get.

Here's the challenge. I have a store credit for $230 at Daddy's Junky Music that I need to spend. I need to spend this amount or more for one item, I can't just go on a shopping spree. The credit is a result of a return upgrade policy.

Now unless I missed something, it looks like cost of a good sound card is less than $200, especially for what I need which is solo recording, one track at a time. The only other big ticket item I might use at this time would be Software and Daddy's doesn't sell software so that's out.

So let's say I purchase the sound card separately, would I find any use for an Audio Interface? I will be recording acuoustic piano and vocals as well as Midi. Are the higher end sound cards also audio interfaces or are they different animals completely?

Is there another piece of equipment other than these that I would find useful? If you guys had my gear (in profile) and $230 to spend on a one item purchase at Daddy's what would you spend it on?

Here's the link to Daddy's for reference: www.daddys.com/shop/

Thanks guys!

Scott.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 06, 2006 10:49 am

sound card and audio interface are the same thing. just seems more 'studio-ish' to say audio interface =).

Looking through the site, UX2 comes to mind, but I don't think there's midi.

Tascam has a new version of their US-122, that has midi, and the upper version (us-144) has spdif, i think, so you can plug in digital processors, drum machines, etc.


Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 06, 2006 01:24 pm

Thanks pjk, learned something new again!

One of the guys at Daddy's told me I should consider an audio interface as a means to get studio quality clarity through my mic setup. He wasn't clear that it would replace my sound card. He kind of implied it was an external device. Needless to say I left somewhat confused because he said I would still need the Midisport for my current Keyboard. I just figured I would look further into the audio interface once I got the Midi into my computer. Looks like any of the sound cards I've looked at like the M-audio Delta 44 have the 15p connector so my original midi cable should work fine.

I checked out the Tascam US-122L and US144 and I like what I see. Especially these comments from the Overview "Record two tracks at a time with zero latency" and "take it anywhere you take your laptop". It looks like an external device that plugs into the USB so does that mean I can leave my current computer setup alone and just plug this stuff and I've got the best of all worlds? Are these units actually standalone sound cards?

Daddy's has the US122L but not the 144L on their website. The 144L is about the right price point for the credit I need to use up.

Also looks like these units would also replace my Behringer MX602 given I only use that now as a preamps for my Mics. I like that this unit could simplify my setup.

Thanks for your help with this.

Scott.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 06, 2006 01:53 pm

Yep, the us122 (or 144) would replace your need for a soundcard, doing all soundcard duties, both better, and faster. And yes, they're standalone, just plugged into the USB port.

I have the original us122, and have been pretty happy with it. Actually, i'm using in tonight and tomorrow for recording a local community choir.

I don't think there is a us144l, only the us122l, and the us144.

To be fair, you wouldn't have to replace your soundcard, but disabling it may not be a bad idea. You can still have it operate, and function, but just don't use it for recording. For instance, my laptop has built-in sound, which is poopy, but works fine for mp3 playback of normal listening. I plug in my us122, and it is then usable in my multitrack programs. So I can operate either way.

Yes again, you wouldn't need to use the preamps on your small mixer. The tascam preamps may be somewhat better than the behringer (not totally sure). Also, it would remove one component from your chain, thereby improving clarity and stability.

That 'zero latency' monitoring is for audio, not midi. I've done a little midi expirements with my setup, and wasn't totally thrilled. I didn't tweak further, but there was some latency. The audio is near zero latency though, as the audio doesn't have to go back into the computer, and back out.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 06, 2006 02:59 pm

Thanks for the quick reply pjk!

When you say there was some latency with midi was it just noticeable to be distracting? That is what I get with my current setup running direct from the USB to the soundcard, playing the soundfonts. Hard to tell maybe 1/10 of a sec or so but running through Reaper SW it was even worse. I noticed no latency with the Audio from mics, mixer and into the 1/8 jack on the line in.

Thanks.

Scott.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 06, 2006 04:12 pm

yeah, it was distracting. i didn't tweak anything though, just trying it, and then not working with it. maybe 1/4 second or so of latency. enough that i wouldn't want to play live with it. I'd use the synth built in to the keyboard instead (juno-d).

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 06, 2006 10:51 pm

SOLVED! Well part of it at least, the most important part of it to me, the latency within the recording software. No more latency, its spot on now.

I found the audio device setting witin the Reaper Software was set to Wave-out. There was an option for DirectSound and WDM Kernal Streaming so remembering what Noize said in a previous thread I selected that and wallah! no more delay. Next I downloaded and installed the ASIOALL Drivers and checked preferences again and found that ASIO was added to the pulldown so I selected that, played a midi track and that worked too.

I still have a slight delay playing direct off the SoundFont Bank Manager but I'm not sure why. Seems that should work as well given the WDM drivers seem to work fine in Reaper. But I have other fish to fry before I mess with that again. I went to the Dell site and downloaded the latest drivers which interestingly was a link to the Creative site I think as partners with SigmaTel. Then selected the update driver tab in Device Manager and it said it was already updated. Tried to manually select the ASIO Drivers in that directory but it didn't recognize or see any files so I just left it be.

This has been frustrating but I think I've learned quite a bit the past week. Thanks to all and this website. Especially you Noize for hanging with me on the other thread. What a cool community you got going here guys!

I'll be back to bug you guys again with more problems or questions for sure, probably real soon!

Thanks.

Scott.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 07, 2006 09:14 am

sweet, now when i goof with midi again i'll have a better insight.

thanks for sharing

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 07, 2006 06:06 pm

Thanks for your help too pjk. It's still a big fog to me right now. I was messing with settings today and started getting a crackling sound with the ASIO driver setup so I went back to WDM and it's cool again.

Still have no idea why I'm still experiencing that slight delay playing the Creadtive Soundfonts. That should be the same as going through the Reaper Software????

Now I need a good softsynth to run as a VSTI within Reaper. Something like the Creative Suite's sounds with all the standard instruments and drum kit. I can't seem to play those instruments within Reaper and I can't figure out how to do that. I'm going to post on that forum tonight and see if I can get some help.

Any ideas on this new issue?

Thanks.

Scott.

Scott.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 08, 2006 10:08 am

Hmm, I've used sytrus that I purchased for within FL Studio. It's got awesome potential, but I haven't really delved into it very far. I've used the presets on a few things, and tinkered here and there, but haven't done a big undertaking yet.

FL studio will act as a VSTi, so there's that possibility. See my HRC Promo in my profile/music gallery for an example of FL studio and Sytrus. FL studio did the bass, drums, and synth backing in the second half.

I also have a Juno D, which gives me a bunch of synth sounds, so I can use that as well.

I'd play around more with it, but I'm still building my studio in the basement, so I'm not very 'set up' yet.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 08, 2006 02:24 pm

I've downloaded some free VSTI's that are getting me closer. I have enough sounds now to start recording multiple tracks. It is now becoming glaringly clear how weak my music composition skills are. Just trying to lay down a base was kind of funny. I don't what what to hit and when. I'm going to download some midi songs and just listen to individual tracks see how the various instruments are layed down.

I've been so focused on this the past week or more now that everything else in my life besides work has taken a back seat. This sure is an all consuming hobby.

Scott.


Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Dec 08, 2006 02:48 pm

yep, it can certainly seem ominous, trying to lay out new ideas. Practice seems to be a fantastic teacher.

And yep, it can suck a whole lot of time (and money) out of your life =).

I figure it's better than sitting in the bar =).


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 08, 2006 11:37 pm

Scott, you aren't kidding. Going digital made it possible for me do so much more in less time. But it is a task to learn it all. Just take your time and don't be afraid to experiment with those VSTi's. They are great fun.

> > > I was decieved by Dell!

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