New Death Metal Mix, comments?

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Death Metal Freak!!!
Member Since: Feb 05, 2006

Ok, here is a Death Metal song that I have a good amount of work done on. No vocals at this time. I am looking for comments, suggestions and/or anything else. Thank you.

www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=4891

2 Guitar tracks panned left
2 Guitar tracks panned right
1 Bass track panned in the center
1 Drum machine track

Please, no comments on the drums not sounding human, I know they do not sound human...LOL. I am just looking for comments on the mix I would love any and all comments regarding the mix, good and bad. Any suggestions as well for a better mix?

Thank you for your time.


Peter

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 06, 2006 06:27 pm

I will give it a listen a bit later or tommorrow. I'd be interested to see what you have come up with doing the guitar stacking thing.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 06, 2006 09:09 pm

Thanks allot, I will be looking forward to your post.


Peter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 06, 2006 09:27 pm

Listening on typical computer speakers the bass was non-existent, (I'll try to listen on better speakers later) even if the drums sounded human they were way too constant for me...drove me nuts, the guitars was pretty decent, but very thick...but, thats typically what death metal wants I believe...

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 07, 2006 10:05 pm

Hey dB Masters, do you mean no bass guitar or no bass in the overall recording? The drums are a big work in progress, I do like the think guitar sound I amglad that came thru...LOL


Peter

Conjurer of Emotion
Member
Since: Jan 14, 2006


Sep 07, 2006 10:46 pm

You definatly need to control your drums. Such as in areas like 1:46 to slightly past 2:00 you could cut out the incessant double bass. Also at 2:36, you start a pretty sweet riff, but just cut out that double bass. You need to vary it up, let the drums ease up so you can soak up the slow but powerful riff and then when you speed it up with the tremelo picking, you can kick in the drums again...thats just my immediate thoughts on the composition itself.


Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 08, 2006 12:38 pm

ooh, man, i agree. way to much of the kick. that's all i can hear, it's hard to listen to anything else.

What I could hear, I do like the guitar sound, but, again, it's hard to get a good feel with all that 'machine-gun' kick.

like gm87 said, mix it up, find areas where the double bass backs up the guitar message, but not all the time, and it's pretty loud, too. Tame it back, so we can hear more of the other content.

Seems like a good start though, the layering seems to work well.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 08, 2006 05:09 pm

I as well have to agree with the above comments. I know the drums are not done yet, but indeed the double kick has got to be tamed down some. It not only draws away from the guitar, but also the bass. I can barely hear the bass at all in this mix. Try some heavy compresion and tweaking the EQ a bit. Give it some punch with a little boost in the lower mids. The guitars sound good though as they are. I suggest building the mix around them. Get whatever final drums you use EQed to fit in with the guitar and definately give the bass more punch to help support the heavy beat.

Otherwise the suggestions above on the arrangement will help immensely.

Member
Since: Sep 08, 2004


Sep 10, 2006 02:56 am

Well, as the only other death metal guy on here (that I know of) I will have to disagree with the arrangement of the drums. Double-bass and blast-beats are part of the genre and without them I think the song would be lacking.

Of course the drums themselves need work. Each seperate hit needs variation to make it sound more human. Some programs can do that for you (Drumkit from Hell, etc.) but I usually do it myself by just having two or three variations (volume/velocity) of each drum and alternating them when I program the drums.

The mix is really good. HEAVY guitar tone! Maybe a little more top end on the guitars to bring out the clarity and perhaps some off the lows to allow the bass guitar to grab some space.

You are getting better and better man! Wish I had the time to help you more!


Conjurer of Emotion
Member
Since: Jan 14, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 12:19 pm

I am into metal completly including Death metal. But even in pure death metal songs, they will use double-bass sparatically during the more important riffs and not simply continue the same exact run throught the entire song. But I must say, i am aware of the constant double kick as being a part of death metal, but that in my opinion is part of why the genre in its purity is very lacking in creativity. Bands worth listening to that fall into the death metal category like maybe Dimmu Borgir, use other styles and methods to mix into their music which adds interest and makes for great works. They use the double-bass and crazy drums really effectively but they also know not to extend it through an entire track and on every song.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 01:41 pm

I have switched up the drums a bit on the "slower" parts of that song. I no way a drummer and while still learning to program the drums, I am not sure what slower drums will work in the slower parts. At 1:46 and 2:36 the slower parts begin and would love comments about them. I did edit the drums at those points. This mix also has about 50% of the songs vocals.


www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=4966


Hey Controlledchaos, thanks for the comments coming from another death metal fan. I can see everyones point of view and see both sides of the argument. Bands like Hate Eternal have blast beats or double bass kicks thru just about all their songs and they never let up. They are also allot faster than what I have here.

I basicly and trying to get a good mix and a drum track complete and then I will go back and "try" to make it more human like.

The funny thing is, all the people in all the different home recording fourms say "the drums need to sound more human", but just your regular death metal fans never mention a thing about it. Just something funny I have noticed.

Peter

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 01:45 pm

Controlledchaos, I wish you had more time to help me as well...LOL

So each and every kick and snare should have a seperate volume/velocity? What do you do for a big double part? Each kick with its own volume/velocity? I am assuming they volume should be fairly close to each other, 100%, 98%, 97%, 99%, 96%, 99% and so on? Any advice on this would be great.


Peter

Member
Since: Sep 08, 2004


Sep 10, 2006 02:03 pm

Exactly! Very similar velocities. But this really only applies to the snare/toms/cymbols. On the double bass I rarely vary them at all because a ton of death metal uses bass-drum triggers which pretty much make them all the same "hit" anyway. As far as the others as long as the same volume/velocity is not next to each other then it usually sounds natural. Example for snare: 100/98/100/97/98/100

Good luck!!

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 02:57 pm

Thakns Controlledchaos, that will leave allot less editing it I do not need to touch the double bass tracks.

So when you change thevolume/velocity are you changing both or basicly just the volume of each hit or the velocity as well?


Peter

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 04:52 pm

Well, I just went back to begin work on making the snare sound more human and beleive it or not the song that is posted has the volume for the snare already varied 100/97/95/98/96/97/100/98/95 so on and so on. Maybe I need to have them varied more? Any suggestions?


Peter

Conjurer of Emotion
Member
Since: Jan 14, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 06:46 pm

yeahhh, just listening to 2:36 (my favorite riff in the song) it is much better. Cutting out the constant double bass there and just adding it in sparatically like you did is pretty much what I meant and I personally like it much better.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Sep 10, 2006 07:38 pm

Ok, I do indeed listen to many forms of metal but my favorites are thrash and death.

I like your guitar work, it's very death metal and the tone you captured is really good. I think they are drowning out any bass guitar presence and also the drums at times.

Also, I indeed love dbl bass alot but there were certain times I think it was overdone. A good example is the meaty breakdown at 2:35, In my opinion (which is by no means right) I think there should be loads of dbl bass, but have it broken up a bit and not 100% constant. And lastly for the drums, a little more snare. I know your still mixing but I figured I'd toss it in.

I would like to hear this one completed with vocals.

Member
Since: Nov 23, 2005


Sep 10, 2006 10:07 pm

Pretty good. I liked it. Many of my comrades that I grew up with are metal heads... the whole spectrum. Interesting, Keep it up and post more.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 03:51 pm

Ok, here it is; just about a finished song/mix:

www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=4981

This has all the vocals recorded as well. I wanted to say thank you to everyone that listed and commented. I am glad I listed to the comments regarding slowing the drums down in particular parts as I think it really made the song sound great I hope you will agree.

I still have some work to do with the drums but for the most part I am very happy with this. Please let me know your opinions.

Also, if you following this thread and are listing to the new mix I just posted the times where the slower parts come in have change by about 12 seconds as I added something to the begining of the song.

Peter

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 03:54 pm

Hey CptTripps, thanks for the comments. I did increase the snare a bit as I also like a bit more snare but not too much. I know allot of people saythey can not hear the bass guitar but if you heard the song with the bass track muted you would be able to tell a big difference.

I hope you like my latest update with all the vocals done!!!

Peter

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 03:56 pm

Hey Goldenmean87, how you like the slower parts now that they have vocals. I changed the drums a little bit in the slower parts again as well and I think overall making them slower on those parts makes the whole song much better. Thanks.


Peter

Member
Since: Sep 08, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 04:47 pm

Good job!! Sounds great. Thick guitar tone! Maybe throw a de-esser on the vocals and it will be perfect.


Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 04:50 pm

What the heck is a de-esser? Some kind of plug-in?



Peter

Conjurer of Emotion
Member
Since: Jan 14, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 08:12 pm

Dude, this kicks some *** right here. And yes, I like the part you modified that I was talking about. It breaks up the song and sounds great. You definatly have every right to be happy with this.

My question is, how did you master this? I love how it turned out and would like to know.

Thanks, and nice work.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 10:31 pm

Hey Goldenmean87, glad you like it and thanks for all the help and comments!!!

Well I would not say the song is "mastered" in the real sence of the word. With the recording software I use (Mixcraft) I mixed the song and then rendered it to a high quality .wav file. I then brought that .wav file into a new project in Mixcraft, I EQed and used compression on the .wav file. I played with the EQ allot and different types of compression till I got it where I liked it. I then closed Mixcraft and opened the project file and then rendered that to a .wav file and then used a free ware program to convert it to .mp3.

Mixcraft has some great support and I have ben getting allot of info/help on using it to "master" the song.

I am sure it I sent the stand alone mixed song to a pro it would sound allot better but for what I am doing I am extreemly happy.


Peter

Conjurer of Emotion
Member
Since: Jan 14, 2006


Sep 11, 2006 10:52 pm

Well I would be happy too. I was just very surprised by the vast difference in level and clarity between your initial mix and the completed one. So to me it sounded like you did something in the way of mastering which essentially you did with some overall compression etc. In any case, very very good :)

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005


Sep 16, 2006 11:03 pm

This is some death metal if I've ever heard any. I liked it, good job man. :)

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Oct 04, 2006 07:35 am

I have just uploaded a brand new song (Suffocating The Unborn) to my Soundclick page:

www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481840

Anyone willing to listen and comment here is this thread that would be great. Thank you.


Peter

Member
Since: Sep 08, 2005


Oct 04, 2006 01:50 pm

what did you record you guitars with? definatly a nice chunky death metal sound for the guitars.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Oct 05, 2006 07:43 am

Jimmyboy,

I used my V-Amp Pro for guitars and bass. For the guitars I recorded 4 tracks (2 paned left and 2 paned right). I used the same settings for all 4 tracks, the only difference was that I used different cabinet modulers for the 2nd 2 guitar tracks. I am very happy with the sound/tone I have gotten.

Let me know if you have any other questions.


Peter

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