Jul 04, 2006 05:51 am WOW, that is a tough question to answer in a forum...I would go to a local community college or something and take some sort of composition class...composition is a BIG subject.
Welcome to HRC!
Newbie seeking help
Posted on Jul 04, 2006 03:55 am
Kewn
Member Since: Jul 04, 2006
Hi people! I've been browsing around a bit in this forum and it seems very nice and helpful. I just got reason 3 and I think I'm getting the hang of it a bit now.
I'm very new to making music and looking for some composition help, tips or guidelines. I love alot of styles in music, but what I'd love to learn to make is music like Ninja Tune stuff (like the albums Triphop & Jazz and the Art of zen relaxation), chillout jazzy kinda things.
I guess I mean music with jazz, hiphop, triphop, funk influences or something like that.
I just don't really know what's a good way to learn this kind of composition, it's all just pretty overwhelming.
I'm gonna take jazz piano lessons, not because I want to learn composition but I think that might help too.
Thanks for your time!
[ Back to Top ]
Jul 04, 2006 05:51 am WOW, that is a tough question to answer in a forum...I would go to a local community college or something and take some sort of composition class...composition is a BIG subject.
Welcome to HRC!
Jul 04, 2006 11:36 am thanks dB Masters, but ain't there way too many music styles to just go to some composition class? I mean, all the books or courses I've seen were ment for classical music. Probably I'd learn alot from that stuff too but these are often ment for huge studies or something.
How did you people learn what you do? It's just that I'm trying to find some directions because it's all so overwhelming, hard to see where to start etc.
Jul 04, 2006 11:48 am Well, I can't speak with any authority, since I am a learning by doing type of person, but, as far as composition classes goes, whats wrong with classical? They are often based in accurate theory and composition formula...and regardless of style, much of the same theory goes into any piece of music. Concepts of rhythm, beat, timing and key transends any style...except opera, that stuff sucks ***... :-)
Jul 04, 2006 12:01 pm hehe probably you're right about the classical thing, and it's not that I got anything against classical but I just thought it might be a bit of a longer way to learn to my goals.
I'm mostly a learning by doing type of person too so that might work too. You just listen carefully to existing music and try things out while putting somehting together? Got alot of knowledge of music theory? Hmm I don't know exactly what I want to ask lol
Jul 04, 2006 12:23 pm I have no real knowledge of anything, I just play stuff at random and take note when something sounds cool. I have enough theory and musical scale knowledge to know some logical progressions...listen to the music in my profile...my music ain't rocket science.
Jul 04, 2006 12:44 pm I know nothing about music, I just know when I put certain notes and chords together it sounds good, or bad. That's how I make music ;)
Jul 04, 2006 01:34 pm Loki thats a nice way and how I'd like to do it too, but what about the structure in the composition of a song, ehm like how it's build up or something.. and about what instruments and sounds you use.. Damn I cant really explain what I wanna say, maybe you get it xD
Gonna think of a better way to explain it now :D
Jul 04, 2006 01:47 pm well I usually start with a synth pad or guitar and create a basic riff and structure. From there I'm just adding stuff and removing stuff on the fly.
Jul 04, 2006 03:09 pm Kewn, welcome to HRC first off.
Secondly, you have kind of hit it on the head with the idea of just plain listening to what is out there. For the style of music you are looking at creating there are no certain classes or training to help with that. However, learing any form of compostion will definately help your skill's in that department. But just plain listening to where others have gone, and how they have structured their songs will be a big help in learning that type of music structure.
I spent 10 years being taught classical piano. But it wasnt where I truly wanted to be. But it did help me seriously learn how to structure music. You can take elements from any type or genre of music and turn them to the genre you wish to pursue. I have turned many classical tracks into free form jazz, hardcore punk or electronic dance music and vice verse.
My biggest suggestion is to simply dive in and start creating. You will know simply by listening to what you create wether you are close or not. AS well you can post for members here to listen and give you advice on where you are with the music.
But the listening is the biggest key to what you are looking to achieve.
Noize
Jul 04, 2006 03:25 pm Agreed...listening/absorbing and writing what SOUNDS good is the key methinks...
It's funny, I know I guy who always bangs on to me about how great his mate is on this instrument/that instrument etc but to be honest, I dont like his songwriting at all.
Its all from "ze book" and the trouble is, it has no emotion with it all...that CANNOT be learned my friend...the best compositions, are the most heart felt and not necessarily poorly structured but, perhaps less stringent on that side of it.
I know I cannot read music, I can read tab. I cannot write notation but I can structure songs folk like to listen to and enjoy...to me, any good structure is what works well on yer ears.
However, this is only MY thinking. Please dont take this the wrong way as I certainly respect those who CAN read/write music and apply structure and musical theory - its an artform, I just canny do it so, go with the Jimi Hendrix school of thought....just play til yer fingers bleed and it sounds good ;-)
All the best and gid luck in yer search for the answers though...
Coco.
Jul 04, 2006 06:32 pm Thanks for the help! I really think you guys are right about this, and it seems to be just the way I like to learn too. I think I will post some experiments here too, would be great to get some feedback. What kinda music in what kinda ways do you guys make?
I'm thinkin about some education on music but it's a pretty hard descision, education makes it seems sort of career aimed.. Just can't seem to choose between music and visual arts :D
I really feel like life is too short for me cause I want to make so many musical styles I love..
Well thanks alot, it's an inspiring forum.
Jul 04, 2006 07:27 pm Well honestly a composition type class such as mentioned earlier in the post might help some. A short class on music theory, although I have learned it but never used it in any large quantity is a good thing as well.
Jul 05, 2006 05:07 pm Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but here's my experience:
Music theory is really just a way to describe what is going on in a piece of music with definate, definable terms. All it does is do away with the "it feels like x, and kinda mkes me think like y" type of discussions. For me, if I have a name for something, I can process it easier and use it more confidently.
A college-level study of composition goes a few steps further than theory (the "classic" progression is to study theory, then counterpoint, then harmony, then form, which all adds up to composition), in that it looks into the hows and whys of the past and shows you how and why to use those methods yourself. Basically the same as leaning an instrument - learn how others have done something, then see what you can do yourself. The reasons most classes focus on "classical" or "art" music are many, but basically because those styles use the functions of the theory to the highest and most varied levels, and there's a lot of research to go to for study purposes.
My advice would be to go to a musician in your area who teaches, and take lessons on functional theory - let them describe how they use music theory in thier style of writing/performing, and take it from there. I've had many students come to me after taking music theory classes in school, ending up totally confused, and all we did was sort through the function of the theory and see how they are already using it, then go from there.
Hope that helps!
Jul 06, 2006 05:38 am Yea Andrew I think that's a good idea, functional music theory, never thought of that term. I'll see if they give lessons like that here, hopefully not too expensive..
I also found a pdf "The Ravenspiral Guide, an informal guide to music composition", didn't have a good look at it yet, is that something any of you would recommend?
Thanks for the help :)
Jul 06, 2006 01:21 pm Hey I was just thinking, do most of the people here got a music career as a goal? And how realistic could that be?
I'm just kinda lost in the woods you know, I know I want a career in art, but I can never choose: music or visual arts. When I look at great paintings it's visual others, when I'm listening to great music it's music.. Music will always be my biggest passion tho. It's just that I really don't know how realistic that is, with 19 I think I'm getting into making music kinda late..
I'm sorry to spoil all this here but I just had to let it out hehe..
Jul 06, 2006 01:23 pm I have done a bit with music, gigged a lot thru my 20's, recorded a couple discs and stuff...I realized it wasn't for me, didn't really dig it after a while.
All I can say is be careful what you wish for...I am happy just recording in my basement...
Jul 06, 2006 01:37 pm Hmm k, what do you do for a living besides that? If I may ask
Jul 06, 2006 01:40 pm I do web design and development full time, part time I do audio production, video production, audio mastering and restoration.
I enjoy the production side, that could be a viable career for me, won't be, but I could enjoy it...the performing part is fun as well, but it's all the crap that comes along with it that makes it suck...at least for me...too many a-holes in the business...most of them being band members and band members significant others.
That said, for some people that might be fine, for me, I just didn't like it. Just cuz my childhood dream of rock stardom was proven to be incompatible with me, I certainly don't wanna piss on anyone elses.
Jul 06, 2006 04:30 pm My stock answer: If you WANT to do music as a career, don't. You'll end up hating it.
If you HAVE to do music as a career, throw yourself into it with all you've got, and never look back. You'll still end up hating it, but at least you'll hate it for a good reason.
Me, I found that if I took another job, I quickly descended into a suicidal depression, so I gladly put up with 80 hour work weeks with little to no pay and even less respect from the general community, but that's just me!
Jul 06, 2006 08:17 pm Hey Kewn, that is a really tough question. I know from my side I can honestly say I have made more money and am much happier doing it part time now, almost taking it as a hobby. Having grown up playing live and recording I grew to hate the bussiness side of it. As well as the fighting and back stabing. I was lucky enough to do several regional tours as well as 2 natioinal tours long ago. I dont honestly regret it, but I dont miss not doing it either anymore. I can afford now to give time to those I feel deserve it. And as well get paid by those that can.
I look at it now as if I take it too seriously again it will no longer be as much fun as it is now.
Jul 07, 2006 06:14 am I do believe it can turn against you when you can't see it as a hobby anymore.. I think I really shouldn't try to make a career out of it, brings way more pressure too. It's just that I really can't see myself doing any job I know other than something in art.
I'll just focus on a career in visual arts, and keep music as a hobby. I should really make this clear decision now.
Jul 07, 2006 06:54 am I work as an Accountant, but that is just a means to an end. In my opinion the best way to go about it is to have another career goal and follow it. At the same time you can afford to buy music equipment and get into writing your own stuff. If you hit it lucky you are sorted, if not you still have a career on the go. I dont see music as a hobby, I see it more as my other thing!
As for composition, use the tricks you have picked up so far, such as a key change, change in tempo, layering more tracks to change the feel of a song. I am by no means an expert, I try things until I hit the nail on the head.
Dont say you think its too late at 19, Im 23! Concentrate on your career and go for it with your music in your spare time.
Good Luck
Chris
Jul 08, 2006 05:15 am I left an Electronic engineering job to start my own recording studio and havent looked back. Starting own business is a challenge, but I love having the flexible hours and being able to plan my own life instead of being stuck in a 9 to fiver (well my old job was more of a 7am to 7 pm, and when I'd get home I'd be so nackered all I had the energy to do was blob infront of the TV, and all I'd think about at night was work solutions)... Now I still eat sleep the job, but it's completely my own, so it feels worthwhile.
Composition... my philosophy is just do it. try stuff out, jump in. keep a tape recorder next to you at all times... hum or sing ideas into it. boogie in the shower, and while driving the car! (safely ;-) Listen to the type of music you want to emulate at night when youa are going to sleep, or in the car as well...
Forget age, it's never too late.
so how is linux these days? its been a few years since I used linux, back when I was at uni we used it.
Jul 09, 2006 12:07 am Michelle, if I come to NZ can I work for you?
I'll bring my own gear. :-)
|
Related Forum Topics: |
If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.