Jun 25, 2006 01:09 pm headphones really don't give the full picture with room ambience and such, the speakers that close to your ears doesn't give an accurate representation of the mix...
in my opinion.
Are headphones bad for you, and why do many people not use them for mixing?
Posted on Jun 25, 2006 01:06 pm
Mikendher
muffin
Member Since: May 13, 2006
So I have two questions, because I used my headphones all the time, for everything. I will often listen on other systems (speakers) just to gain perspective, but 90% of the time my headphones are on, which is for about 2 or 3 hours daily.
Question 1)
Can headphones be harmful to me with that much use?
Question 2)
Why do some people say that mixing with headphones is not good?
PS: I probably couldn't afford moniters, unless they are less expensive than I think they are, or are REALLY important.
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Jun 25, 2006 01:09 pm headphones really don't give the full picture with room ambience and such, the speakers that close to your ears doesn't give an accurate representation of the mix...
in my opinion.
Jun 25, 2006 02:36 pm Also , some mixing "tools".. like some panning choices can sound like a bad choice in the headphones, but out in the open work very well.
For instance the other day I was listening to an REM cd in headphones.. there was a guitar part panned very far to the right.. it didn't sound like a good idea.. but out in the open the guitar seemed to come in and accent and add another layer of depth and worked very well.
Jun 25, 2006 03:45 pm 1: YEs the headphones can strain your ears and cause fatigue much more rapidly then near field moniters will.
2: Agree with the ohter's. Headphones cannot give a proper representation of the acutall content being run through them. There are some headphones that are built for very flat response such as some from AKG and Sennheiser, but for the most part most headphones give a false representation of the low mid or high end of the spectrum.
You can however train yourself to compensate for the sound of the headphones when mixing.
Jun 25, 2006 04:47 pm how do they tend to color the low mids and highs?
Jun 25, 2006 05:20 pm Some headphones are built to add to the lows, mids or highs to compensate for the small drivers. Usually with electronics or speaker design. They tend to give an untrue picture of what you are actually mixng by boosting one or more frequancies. Especially the home stereo headphone designs.
Jun 25, 2006 06:10 pm right. i mean, though, how can we tell what ours are doing specifically? because i mix in headphones. 8 dollar walkman headphones.
Jun 25, 2006 06:20 pm Compare it to something more flat?
Or you could always record the signal and compare it to the original :-)
Thanks for the answers by the way! So what's the cheapest but still effective moniters that I could get? Is there anything I need to know about placement or other stuff?
Jun 25, 2006 08:01 pm Just remember, you'll have to check against good monitors, in a good symmetrical control room, until you are comfortable with what the headphones ar e ACTUALLY doing. I use them but EVERYTHING gets checked at at least 5-10 crucial points throughout the mixing process. Its taken me 3 years to determine that I actually know what is going on in the mis with phones on. Ultimately, you cannot believe what you hear with phones unless you train yourself to hear colored.... which unless necessary, is probably not a wise practice. My father and I both have an extremely rare ear condition in our left ears. He has lost some hearing but I have nutured my hearing since I realized what was going on.
A very "flat" speaker will almost immediately stress my ears, creating a sound like a crackling / fuzzy AM radio station loosing signal. Since the phones are so direct to the ear, I've learned to mix with their colored sound at very low volumes compared to what most mixing engineers would prefer. This has ultimately kept my ear condition worsening. I would favor my Mackie 824's, which sound very flat, if my ears could handle more than 15-20 min. periods of sound !
Jun 25, 2006 10:23 pm Listening with headphones for 2-3 hours a day is not recomended due to the sound pressure levels battering your ear drums. It can lead to tinnitis and other problems with your hearing. Also has anyone out there ever accidently set up a feedback loop, pressed play/rec with the cans on, and had that loud painful digital squeal cut straight through their ears?(Takes a year of your life everytime, i'm sure of it)
I mainly use h/phones for tracking and they are useful for finding a good signal to noise ratio. Then use them for quickly checking your final mix and finding noises in your mix that arent audible on the monitor speakers or whatever speakers you are using if you cant afford near field monitors.
Jun 25, 2006 11:56 pm "Also , some mixing "tools".. like some panning choices can sound like a bad choice in the headphones, but out in the open work very well."
that is a very good point but sometimes speakers don't accent pans enough and each person has a different speaker setup, some have surround sound, some have speakers close to their ears like someone said, som ehave speakers spaced far apart, some have speakers on either side of their headboard. everyone has the same earphone setup. I'm not saying I know **** about recording/mixing at this point, but there's nothing like a good wholesome challenge
Jun 26, 2006 10:31 am Yeah, I'm just making the point that this happens and that it is just another reason that for mixing most studios use speakers for a better representation.. alot of the time.
Not long ago, I was convinced that headphones were the way to go to get a better picture of my music.. but that turned out to be false. Just my experience.
Jun 26, 2006 10:52 am Also, part of the reason I cannot use speakers very efficiently is I am totally space limited right now. The Ideal distance, according to the material I've read in MIX magazine and "How to build a recording studio", to have near-field monitors away from your ears while mixing is somewhere around 7'-12'.. much further than most people mix at I'm sure simply due to space restrictions.
Now a large pro studio that has mid-fields may have their nears at 7 feet and their mids at 12. Either way, some of the reason I do not use the Mackies, besides my ear condition, is that the effects of sound pressure from 2- 8" drivers and tweets from 3.5' away is MUCH more fatiguing than the SONY- MDR-7509 cans just bumping enough to hear for a while. I agree, after about 2-3 hours at even low volumes with cans, I feel some fatigue even at low vloumes. But man, just 30 min. with the Mackies at low volume can create fatigue.
I hate it when I'm in someone else's studio and the SLAM their monitors constantly. I guess I have hypersensitive hearing cause I lost some in the past and became aware of it, and now I'm extremely aware of further loss occuring.
Jun 26, 2006 11:16 am Final note, ultimately I think its impossible to come even close to knowing whats going on with cans unless you've trained (tricked) yourself into hearing like your monitors by comparing frequently. This is especially appearent when in a mastering studio. I had the honors of sitting in on a mastering sessions at Classic Sound in Manhatten 5 years ago. I was in a project which never fully developed, wher the lead singer went to school at Case Western Reserve in Cleveland. A friend of his attended their recording program and his mentor from school landed a gig mixing for Scott Hull at Classic Sound. Scott, BTW is a protegy of Bob Ludwig at Gateway mastering.
This place has Platinum records lining every sqaure inch of head-high wall space. They have 3 mastering suites and hearing music in there explains 100% why ultimately, it could be done no other way. Funny thing is, Nathan, our friend that actually worked there says that Scott masters most of the material at outrageously loud volumes. Go figure. Cans are simply more practical at times is my sentiment ~
Jun 26, 2006 11:54 am What if your mixing space is quite small and poor acoustics? Is it better to use a bad room with so so monitors or just eliminate the room and use cans?
Jun 26, 2006 12:16 pm I'd think there's a lot of variables to that one. Rooms can be bad in varying degrees, as can the skill of the engineer. If the room and monitors are great, then no learning curve required.
If they're not perfect, then learning how to compensate comes into play. I'd think the worse the environment, the more you'll have to learn how to compensate.
Personally, i'm not favorable to cans, except for tracking, and infrequent searching for issues. I'm more inclined to use monitors for most, if not all, mixing.
but that's just my way. In the end, if it sounds good, then it is good. Compare to quality reference, and trust your ears.
Jun 26, 2006 06:16 pm Josh does bring up a good point really. Although rooms can be set up to sound decent, they may not be perfect. But you can learn to compensate. Simply pick a CD you are extremely familier with and play it on the monitering system. Learn how it sounds with everything set flat, do not use any type of EQ to make it brighter or add bottom end. Learn how it sounds coming straight out of your recording application. What I ripping a track or 2 to a wav file so it isnt being stripped of the high and low end as in an mp3. then load the wav into your recording applicatioin and play it back just as you would your mix. Now learn what it sounds like there compared to in your car or on the home stereo. Now you simply get your mixes to sound exactly like that, or as close as you can. And you should be well within the ball park for having a proper mix.
forty as for how exactly they do it. I think each maker has a differant way. I know the cheap walkman phones do it by the way the interior is curved and how and where the driver is mounted. If you have ever used earbuds of the type that sit just in the little crevice (sp) of your ear. Try moving them slightly and notice how the bass or high end change. That is the same principle used by the headphone makers, placement of the drivers will change how they sound. to some degree.
Jun 27, 2006 02:25 pm Just a side note, with wife and kid sometimes I must be very quiet while doing my thing which makes headphones a requirement. I recently picked up the Bose Triports, if you have to use phones while mixing I will give these a solid reccomendation. Although panning and what not may still be an issue, the sound reproduction is far more similar to my moinitors then the senheiser HD's I have, the HD's are great for tracking but ridiculous to try mixing with as the amplify all lows&highs far too much.
So... Monitors are best, but the Bose are nice phones that don't lie too much if you have the need like me.
p.s. I guess I should have said they are not studio phones, just nice ones that do pretty nice with providing you the sound you will obtain once you throw your track in a car or home stereo.
Jun 27, 2006 07:25 pm heh i remember in highschool, i considered my heaphones (sony's at the time) "studio monitors" i actually called 'em that! i say make best of what you have, and use every speaker you own as a 'monitor'.
when i was around 12, i had my first radio that had the detachable speakers *with raw wire connectors* and a line input...i was in speaker heven because i could hook up 10 sets of speakers through one box! and so i did, i had car speakers, earbuds *split far apart*, older speakers, just what ever i could find. lol
final count was in the 20's (counting threeways as 3 and such)....i bet the impeadance was about .01Ohms
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