Gracie Upset A Shame !!!!
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Posted on May 28, 2006 03:15 pm
carbonic44
Member Since: Nov 23, 2005
It made me ill to see Royce Gracie get beat by an inferior fighter. This is my sentiment. How was Royce so foolish as to give him an arm, then never complete a full guard, then expose his back, and loose from getting grapevined and rear mounted. I almost swear the fight was thrown. This is not really the Gracie I remember. His reaction was slow and uncalculated. Ever since they change the rules after UFC 4 or 5, the whole thing has been a glam fest. The boxing commission ruined it. Some of the guys they have fight in UFC have little talent. Others are pretty tough, but NONE that I have seen yet should be able to so easily take a MASTER of JIu Jitsu..... a sad day it was ~!
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May 28, 2006 03:24 pm Well, while I was disappointed by the outcome, I was not surprised, Matt Hughes is FAR from an inferior fighter, and is currently and welterweight champ.
When Royce first came on the scene back in the early days, nobody had ground skills, which is why he cleaned up, today, everybody has grappling skills, mostly because back in the day Royce made it so everybody HAVE to have it if hwe was ever to be beat.
How on earth he tollerated that armbar and stayed so calm I will never know, those things hurt, also, why he gave Hughes his back TWICE I don't get. I am a member of the Royce Gracie JiuJitsu Network and they teach to NEVER, EVER give you back up...and Royce really doesn't have much of a stand up game...I was cheering for Royce, but honestly, didn't expect him to win.
May 28, 2006 04:16 pm Well, I suppose "inferior fighter" was a bit hasty of me, but "lesser style" might be more appropriate. I actually DID expect Gracie to win. I realize that there is about 7 to 8 years age difference, Hughes fights like a spark plug, and currently holds the UFC title, but honestly, it was a supprising upset to me. I told my friends just before we watched it that this may be a very challenging fight for Gracie since Hughes is so small and compact, and that Royce has been fighting these giants in the past in the UFC. The difference in size may have worked to his advantage in the past. I just never thought I would see him get in such a bad position so soon. Unfortunately, way back when the rules changed, they did not do so in favor of the original-style jiu jitsu fighter, or martial artists in general. Now, the UFC is like glorified boxing, mixed with kick boxing and ground-n-pound. Kinda funny too, I've been in the same position that Royce was in when he was getting belted in the back and sides of the head, and got out of it and walked away from the fight without ever being knocked out. They stop the fights much more quickly when someone is in trouble now. In other words, its not the "no holds barred," fighting match that they advertise. I liked the old rules so much more, it was more realistic for pitting the various styles of fighters against one another. We're good at that here in America, bastardize true art until it no longer resembles art. Or make a bunch or rules that are in favor of the less compitent. And yeah, that was a brutal wrist-lock / arm bar. My god, I've gotten out of them before but that looked rediculous.
May 28, 2006 05:20 pm Yeah, the rules changed, some good, some bad. To reach the commercial status they have, though, the rules had to change. UFC would not have been as nearly widely accepted under the old no-rules, rules.
The guys Royce used to fight back in UFC 2, 3, etc were big, but they were goons, total bar brawlers or just boxers, and had little to know training, just tough guys...
I do agree, some of the rules got a bit too tight, and matches are definately called much too quickly sometimes, but it was all done in the name of commercialism, and it wasn't for those changes, the UFC wouldn't be as readily available as it is today with contracts like Spike TV.
I do like, however, that the fighters of today are highly trained and conditioned martial artists, cross trained in standup, throws and grappling, as opposed to just Jerry Springer style tough guys...
I have a lot of respect for Matt Hughes and many others in the UFC, but still, was quietly cheering to Royce cuz, well, he's Royce. Out of the 8 people at my house watching the PPV (5 of which train MMA), only two of us said Royce would win.
it is a shame he lost, I can't agree with that any more than I do...but still, Royce is a legend, and always will be. Win, lose or draw.
May 28, 2006 06:32 pm For those that want to watch it, here it is
May 28, 2006 06:43 pm I suppose looking back on the whole thing, the sport really has come a long way, and like anything else in a mixed market capitalist society, commercialization is inevidable for something to trhive and survive. I was impressed with the fighter named List. His submission was clean and well executed. Some friends and I used to get together about once or twice a week and grapple with slap box style stand up. We had a few very entertaining fights. Unfortunately, many of us have since vested our time elsewhere. It really sucked for me cause last summer I was in the best shape I've ever been in and around September I developed a knee problem. Turned out that I had substantial menuscal tears in both knees. I had surgery in January and do not feel nearly as well as the doctor said I would. Apparently, so the doctor claims, and I have a hard time believing, I have osteo(degenerative) arthritis in both knees to the tune of a 60-year-old man. Funny thing is, I cannot figure out what caused the tears other than natural wear over the years. I'm only 31. That is WAY to young to curb my appetite for physical activity. It kills me to see people running and stuff cause I can only walk comfortably. If I run or even walk too long (more than 3-4 miles), my knees start swelling. Also, they've got me on anti-inflams. Hopefully, in time, I will feel better. I must say its become easier to determine the barometric pressure just by the way my knees feel!
May 28, 2006 07:46 pm Thats too bad, dude, I feel for ya. I started MMA training cuz I needed to do something to get into some sort of shape, I have had a few bumps and bruises along the way, but overall it's been the best thing I have done in a long time, it'd suck if I had to quit.
Chuck Norris started the World Combat League, a martial art full contact team compition, which sounds awesome until I got to the part about no grappling, clinches or such, all standup, only striking...lame...cuz a good grappler is fun to watch...ie, Royce, Rickson, Rorion, Rodrigo or anyone else with the last name of "Gracie".
Rodrigo Gracie is going to be at my gym this coming weekend for a seminar...
The UFC has come a long way, it's not the same competitors that Royce owned back in the early 90's, the competition is MUCH better trained...
May 28, 2006 07:57 pm Oh, and yeah, Lester had a good fight, Riggs got had too, which is good, something bugs me about that dude, but I can't lay my finger on what...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 28, 2006 11:04 pm Thanx for the link dB. That was kinda sad to see it end so quickly like that. But it sure looked like that advantage went to Hughes as soon as they hit the floor.
May 28, 2006 11:04 pm Rickson is one bad a__ mofo. I've got a tape of his advanced arm locks, all of which are horribly effective, and to watch him apply them in competition with brute force at lightning speed is phenomenal. I may be wrong, but the last I heard, his total overall fight record record is like literally 230-0-0 !!! There may be a few losses but it is something outrageously high like that. His MMA is 11-0-0. Honestly, I've always thought he was the most violent, aggressive, jiu jitsu fighter I've ever seen and I would absolutely loath fighting him. Each member of that family has a fighting demeanor that is unique to themself. Very cool.
May 29, 2006 09:31 am Yeah, he is...all the Gracies have fight counts in the hundreds...they said Royce's record was 11-0-0, but thats just UFC, that isn't his Pride fights, probable Bushido tournaments, the hundreds of Gracie Challenge matches in Brazil...have you ever seen tapes of the challenge matches...the Gracie's would take on anyone that walked in...the Gracie JiuJitsu "In Action" tapes are great, my instructor borrowed me two of them to watch before the PPV...they would fight with no rounds, no time limit matches one after another for hours on end...these guys are all BAD ***...I recently saw a video of Helio Gracie at age 91 rolling with some young guy handling him like dirty clothes...
