Whats the point?
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Posted on May 15, 2006 08:28 pm
Goldenmean87
Conjurer of Emotion
Member Since: Jan 14, 2006
I was just wondering how using a really clean dedicated mic pre would do you any good if that signal has to travel through your PC interface to get to your DAW anyway. Wouldnt the cleanlyness of your mic pre signal be subject to the lesser quality of your PC interface?
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May 15, 2006 08:41 pm Yep haha. You're always limited to the weakest link in your signal chain.
I've got an Avalon 737 and its really depressing hearing through my aardvarks. Sure, you can hear a difference, but if you plug it straight into the speakers, jesus, its amazing.
If you don't have an interface with pre-amps, and your only other pres are a behringer mixer, you will hear a big difference on things like vocals though. But yeah, the difference would be much nicer on a 20 grand protools HD system : ).
(One day my beautiful avalon, one day)
May 15, 2006 10:05 pm ahh, so its as I thought. Thanks colonel. Also I was wondering if A/D converters make a difference with analog signal coming from something like a synthesizer. If I record a hardware synth via 2 1/4 TRS at 192khz, would it really affect it the same way the sample rate would affect a microphone input?
May 16, 2006 12:22 am If I may, yes,... if your ears are that acclimated to synthesized sounds that you can hear it. Not sure, but I think the ProTools System has a relatively passive method of getting the signal in without running it through much more than the converters in the ProTools I/O Boxes. It may allow you to bypass the preamp circut at some setting all together. I've been in a few mastering studios in NYC and those guys run signals straignt to converters, then to digital. Lesser signal points-of-transfer often equals greater "perceived loudness" and clarity. I have an Avalon 747sp and run it into a MOTU 896 (the older one), and the MOTU's converters do knock off some of the presense, but I'm still blown away. If you want that surreal sound, a high-end solid-state mic pre like a Mellenia or a Grace Design will counter-act the FX of bogus A/D to D/A conversion somewhat. I avoid an outboard mixer for printing and mixing unless absolutely necessary. Why use the mixers pre-amps, then pump it out again to an I/O box, go through those pre-amps, and finally hit the less-than average converters..? Just my sentiment. Ideally, I'd love to go Apoggee Converters directly into the computer. If you need to compress when printing the tracks, get a computer set-up that is strong enough, and software that is slick enough, to compress with the waves plug-ins in realtime while recording tracks. The attack and release times are superior to outboard gear, and you'll be pleased with their abilities to limit and compress with little coloration.
May 16, 2006 02:15 pm I see, I was just wondering how much the sample rate would affect analog inputs from 1/4 connections. Currently I have my outboard synth and one of my virtual amps hooked up via digital. Digital would be better than using high sample rate analog right? Since I believe digital is really sending 1's and 0's which translate to the PC exactly what the electronics in the synth/v-amp are creating as opposed to just trying to get as close to it as possible with analog. Am I correct in this assumption?
May 16, 2006 05:18 pm Generally synths are so clean that your biggest concern will be getting the hottest possible levels ALL the time if you have to route via analog TRS 1/4" connections....not so much the maximum sample rate since the sounds are created within cirtutry, rather than hot, open mics. I guess the digital should technically be the cleanest, therefor the noise floor plays less of an issue. Go digital, you may find the synth as having some patches that sound particularly harsh, just make sure that both sample and bit rates are as a high as feasibly possible. Either way, if you have a keen ear, and consider the nature of summing a bunch of tracks together (i.e. the more tracks added to a mix, the harder it is to make each one both heard and kept clean, and noticable in the mix), yes, it will affect the 1/4" TRS input sound sources just as it would a mic. I'm 24/96 and am realizing the value of massive harddrive space. An IDE or SATA pull-out bay for storage drives may be in order for 24/192khz.
May 16, 2006 05:40 pm alrighty, pretty much what i figured but wasnt sure. I am building a new PC in a month or so which will be only for studio use. I'm thinking of getting a Server case for more drive bays and I may just toss in several large hard drives in there and I doubt I would use more than that. I'm talking up to 600 or 800 gigs. But if needed I was thinking of removable bays or an HDD enclosure.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 16, 2006 09:07 pm I use removable bays in all my boxes. Would not build a PC without them for use in here. As well the main box which runs the majority of my software synths and samplers is sitting right now with 2 SATA drives totaling 500 gig. It would run out in short order, but the removable bays make it easy to switch and load the sample sets I might need for a certain synths.
And my honest opinion here is you had better have one really keen ear to hear the differance between converters when recording an outboard synth via its analog outputs. There are far to many variables in the sound a synth might make to make it easy to hear the little differances a set of converters will make in those type of sounds.
When I fly in samples to work on I bring them in at 24/192, then let the app run them at 32 bit. It does make a differance in the outcome if you plan on doing a lot of processing to the file in the digital realm. But in the end, the final product comes out at 16/44.1 and the entire world except for maybe 9 people will not hear the differance at all.
Just my humble thoughts on the subject.
May 16, 2006 10:03 pm hmm, I'm not sure that you understood what i meant. You seem to be talking about variable "sets" of converters. I was only asking if the actual sample rate would make much of an audible difference with something like the analog from a synth as opposed to a microphone. Like with a synth, would you hear the difference between it being recorded at 44.1 and 192?
Also, Noize, you said that your SATA drives total at 500 gig. But if I just install 600-800 then I see no need for swapable bays. Do you have a reason why they would still be a good idea? I know you could save seperate libraries etc. on them but I could just make main folder sub-divisions or partition the internal ones.
May 16, 2006 11:03 pm Oops, kinda assumed that if you were asking about a higher sample rate like 192 khz affecting a synth the same way as a mic (TRS vs. XLR ins), that you were using a lesser bit rate like 16 for bringing in sound through the TRS connections before. So to accuratly answer the question, from my perspective.. It depends if the Oscillators in the synth making the sounds are actually changing the wave form faster than 192khz can chart a change.. My guess, probably not. Although, a modeling synth like the new Korg OASYS or some of the original analogs might be noticable. Also, with enough polyphony, the same may prove true. Mathmatically, yes, perceptivly, no.
