illegal immagration (usa)
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Posted on Feb 10, 2006 01:32 pm
whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004
seems all the talk radio hosts are really commin' down hard on illegal immagrants these days , ....i've heard all sorts of 'fixes' from fence's to a whole quasi-military division to 'protect' the border with mexico (and eventually canada)....anyways not once have i heard of some kinda 'friendly merger' with mexico....basically the two nations become one (kinda like east and west germany but ummm well different....ofcourse i'm all about voting it in, but it seems to me if we just drop the darn border, it would be a win/win situation for everyone. we're talkin' jobs galore down there to build up a better infrastructure, and not to mention better road trips...plus, seems how we're slowly tryin' to close ourselves in, wouldn't an all water border make it harder to get in?
take it a step further and merge with canada and we'd basically be like the EU, oooooOOooOO one money! yeah i think it'd be swell AU (american union) haha also the symbol for gold! go figure.
just an idea
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Feb 10, 2006 01:40 pm Ever seen the border down there? It is a great deal water...they get across anyway, and it's kinda funny to watch...highly recommended if you get the chance.
I would think the border dropping idea would be OK with Canada, as it can be a mutually beneficial result they have a decent economy and stable culture...dropping the border with Mexico I feel would be a horrendous idea...it would only be a further, and legal drain on us for the benefit of them.
That said, I think we should enforce the border MUCH harder than now, get our military home to do it and just protect ourselves and stop being the police for the world.
Feb 10, 2006 01:43 pm ahh yeah good points, yeah i've never made it past St. Louis....Cali and Denver are calling to me though! some day.
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 02:02 pm I live in Phoenix, AZ. Half (if not more) of our population is hispanic. Before being able to work in this industry, I worked at a restaraunt. The stereotypes are true...most of my co-workers were illegals. I don't understand the hatred for these people! 99% of them were extremely hard working, and would come up here at the risk of losing EVERYTHING, not just material possesions but family, friends, even their own lives. All to provide a better life for their family. These guys will come up and live in El Barrio, (slums worse than some of those in Mexico) and work three jobs, 80-120 hours a week, just so they could send money home to their families, so their kids don't have to live in the ghettos of Mexico. So their mom's can afford healthcare, something the Mexican government doesn't provide. These people, some of them very close friends of mine, are the salt of the earth and the hardest workers I've ever met. You have to respect them for that, no matter which side of the imaginary line they were born on.
I realize Americans need some of the jobs in question, and I'm not saying that they deserve jobs over Americans, but we are all humans. And these are human issues. So before you blame them for taking our jobs, put yourself in their shoes and see if you wouldn't do the exact same thing.
America with Liberty for just us not all!
Feb 10, 2006 02:07 pm Actually, you are right about one thing, of the mexicans I know or have met, yes, they are very hard working people often with strong family ties and family value, which I greatly admire. if they work harder, they should get the jobs ahead of ones that won't, regardless of who they are or where they are from.
That said, my biggest problem is one simple fact "illegal"...there are ways to get to America legally, get legal employment, and pay taxes like everybody else. I am angered by those that do otherwise, regardless of reason.
Companies that employ illegals should be heavily penalyzed, and anyone that assists people in skating thru our liberties without paying the same price we do should be punished.
I am angry at nobody that tries to make a better life for themsleves, I am angry at those that do it illegally and people that help them do so.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 10, 2006 02:25 pm Another point, not yet mentioned, is that the immigrants (mostly illegal) will do a lot of jobs that US born welfare people won't take.
While I'm certainly not for illegal aliens coming into the country, it does say something about our 'softness' when they'd rather come here and work crappy jobs, than stay at home and do nothing, and starve. Seems if US citizens weren't afraid of the hard work, the jobs wouldn't be going to 3rd world illegal immigrants.
Conversely, I've also seen the court case last year where a college student had to pay more money for tuition than an illegal alien going to the same school. That kinda burns a bit.
Oh yeah, lucky13, i'm going snow-skiing in 2 hours. 15 minutes from where I work - Hoo-Haa!
Sorry, just had to throw that out there, I tease my sister in Black Canyon City about it too =).
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 02:28 pm Valid point.
I don't know the solution to these issues, I just know that everybody deserves an opportunity to provide a better life for their family.
A counterpoint: Most illegals do pay taxes. They end up with forged green cards and social security cards in order to get a job, and uncle sam takes their money before they ever see it, the same way that we pay ours. The exception to that is day laborers, who stand in front of Home Depot every morning waiting for contractors to pay them cash under the table for the days work. I don't agree with either of these methods, I'm just saying that's how it works.
I do agree however, that people should go through the processes of gaining legal access to this country, before they come up and start working. But in my opinion, the solution is not closing the borders down, I don't know the solution, but that's not it!
Feb 10, 2006 02:29 pm VERY good point pjk, and an important point about how soft Americans have gotten, which is why I do feel the welfare system has to change...maybe not even change financially, but the social stigma associated with it does...the old timers would never go on wlefare because there was a social stigma attached to it, now, thanks to the liberal left that stigma no longer exists, there is no shame, so people can be soft...
America has gotten extremely soft.
The quick solution is closing borders...not sure thats the right one, but it's a start...
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 02:30 pm Well, I went camping last weekend and the creek was beautiful! Not a sign of cold weather anywhere. As much as I like snowboarding, I just can't complain about the 77 degree high today.
Feb 10, 2006 03:01 pm wow! nice replys there guys!
i just view closing the borders as locking ourselves in instead of keeping others out, kinda the same way everyone here has 3 locks on their doors and keeps the blinds closed 24/7 in the name of privacy...not just in the literal sense, but as for a world view of us, with our history of beeing a nation of immagrants, how exactly do we say "ok we're full now, lock it up".
Feb 10, 2006 03:06 pm Quote:
how exactly do we say "ok we're full now, lock it up"
Ummmm, by locking it up.
We WERE a land of immigrants, if history is correct (which it seldom is) our founders came here to get away from the others...so, that being said, why let them in :-)
Now, that was said partially tongue in cheek, but, I will venture a guess and say that what our history is really is moot now, and I am guessing a good portion of us were born here...I know I am not an immigrant though my great grandfather was, that has no reflection on me.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Feb 10, 2006 04:06 pm <mindless_rambling>
We regularly use... actually I would say it's more of "take advantage of"... mexicans in my dads home remodeling business mainly for roofing and snow plowing... the problem from our perspective is craftmanship wise they don't really know what they're doing... they will put a roof on for $30 a square but they won't do it right... probably just because they don't know how. So we subcontract them and charge a few thousand extra and we supervise them and do some of the more "craftmanship intensive" work... they get paid their rate, we get a cut for supervising, and the homeowner gets a good product. We tried doing a similar thing with an amish crew... they pulled in the driveway, took one look at the roof, said "no" and left... they didn't even try to talk money.
One of the economic problems is that most wealth is derived by making things and to make things competitativly you need cheap labor... but you need expensive labor to buy the things. I can't remember who said it but "There will always be rich and poor, you just don't want them to always be the same people." So... imo it would be acceptable to badly exploite entry level workers but as they age put them in a situation of ownership... which is essentially the point of stock options... however if those stocks don't pay dividends then there isn't any point bacause the value of the stock is then only worth at best the valure of the company at auction.... SO..... altering the coportate environment to encourage companies to pay dividends to stockholders instead of bonuses to execs would greatly increase the state of the working class... however the main obstical is that the execs generally own most of the stock so it is in _their_ interest to not pay dividends because that takes away from their bonus. :)
If workers attained ownership and had the _benifits_ of ownership nobody would care about crap jobs being filled by immigrants because the total compensation would not rest on the paycheck.
</mindless_rambling>
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 05:53 pm Here's the problem with closing the border:
If we close the borders, then that only keeps the legal immigrants out, and illegals will get in the same as they do now. Now we have all of the drawbacks without any benefits.
It's like gun control, if they take all of the guns out of honest citizens hands, then only criminals have guns. How am I supposed to protect my family against someone with a gun if all I have is a baseball bat and a butcher knife?
Feb 10, 2006 05:55 pm Well, that would depend on how effectively we close the borders...of course, I guess they could smuggle illegals in cleverly disguised as packages of heroine...
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 06:02 pm They just busted a tunnel in San Diego running between there and Tijuana being used to smuggle weed in to the U.S. This made national news. What people outside of border states don't know is that they find these tunnels quite often. They are often crude and dangerous, but this one in San Deigo had concrete reinforcements and electricity.
It doesn't matter how many agents, fences, dogs, guns, tanks, or soldiers you put there. They will dig, jump, swim, or fly to get here.
Feb 10, 2006 06:05 pm thats true, but it could be lessened, of course it will never stop...
lucky13Your mom's favorite sonMember
Since: Feb 07, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 06:10 pm Verdad
(True en espanol)
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Feb 10, 2006 06:13 pm Speaking of tunnels, they found one between Canada and US almost in my backyard. Well actually about 10 miles away but still....
Feb 10, 2006 06:20 pm wow, thats a nice sized backyard ya got there...
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Feb 10, 2006 06:42 pm [quote]Police arrest three in Canada-US drug tunnel raid
LANGLEY, British Columbia (Reuters) - Three people have been arrested after police raided a sophisticated tunnel intended to smuggle drugs under the U.S.-Canada border between Vancouver and Seattle, investigators said on Thursday.
The smugglers spent more than a year building the 360-foot (110-meter) tunnel that ran from a Quonset hut-style storage building in the rural Aldergrove neighborhood of Langley, British Columbia, to the living room of a home in Lynden, Washington, U.S. and Canadian investigators said.
"It was well built, probably one of the most sophisticated tunnels we've ever seen," said Rod Benson, an agent with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. "There was a significant drug trafficking organization that was responsible for the construction."
Video supplied by investigators showed that the inside of the tunnel was lined with wood supports and concrete reinforced with steel. The builders had installed a small cart to allow them to move freight or people from one end to the other.
Investigators said it was the first time a drug smuggling tunnel had been found on the U.S.-Canada border, although more than 30 such tunnels have been uncovered on the border between Mexico and the United States.
Large quantities of potent "B.C. Bud" are smuggled to the United States each year from British Columbia, where illegal marijuana growing has been estimated to be a more than C$2 billion-a-year industry ($1.7 billion).
Investigators said that while they believe it had only been used briefly to smuggle marijuana to the United States, the tunnel was also likely intended to smuggle illegal immigrants into the United States and cocaine and guns into Canada.
Police raided the tunnel on Wednesday, arresting three men from Surrey, British Columbia. They also seized 93 pounds of marijuana that had been loaded into a vehicle and was being driven across Washington state.
Francis Devandra Raj, 30, Timothy Woo, 34, and Jonathan Valenzuela, 27, have been charged with drug smuggling and are being held in the United States. Investigators said the three men are well known to police in Canada.
Raj owned the property at the tunnel's Canadian entrance. The owner of the property on the U.S. side has not been arrested, but police said they are still investigating.
DIGGING WORK HIDDEN
Neighbors said the builders did a good job hiding their activities. "I'm kind of a nosy person... and I never seen any activity to speak of," said Mike Hamm, who lived not far from Raj's property.
There were unconfirmed reports that an audio tape of automobile repairs was used to mask the digging work inside the hut.
Canadian border officials were tipped off that something was being built in late 2003, and later received reports of wood being delivered to the Aldergrove property and debris being taken away.
U.S. investigators had secretly entered the Lyndon house on July 2, and installed monitoring equipment. A reporter said it appeared the builders had constructed a substantial storage space under the house.
The international boundary in the area of the tunnel is marked by a small ditch that runs between parallel Canadian and U.S. roads. American officials monitor the area with remote-controlled cameras.
($1=$1.22 Canadian)
Source: REUTERS[/quote]
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 11, 2006 07:25 pm Very interesting place. Every one has their opinion I guess. Some get it, and others just dont or never will.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Feb 12, 2006 03:21 am Well...remember I didn't start this.....
Here's the background:
1. I'm an immigrant.
2. I did it properly. laywers, visits to the INS (now the OHS.....), fees, medical exams.....
3. I pay my taxes, and am a law abiding resident.
America is a land of opportunity (it says so on the box). If you are willing to work hard (you wouldn't belive the holidays everyone else gets...), and do it right, you can get the rewards. I've proven that. I'm not a rich man. I have a house, in a nice neighbourhood, a late model car, and I'm not starving. But I've worked hard for all of it.
I've worked alongside Mexicans. They are, as noted above, very hard-working, family oriented, and generally nice guys.
I don't agree with the illegals getting any benefits, or special treatment at all. They need to do it properly. That's the only way this country can stay great. We don't need a drain of resources (medical, welfare, or otherwise).
I know the economy of California relies heavily on migrant workers, but we need to make sure everyone has the right to do the work. Picking up the guys on the corner to dig your pool is not doing anyone any favours.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 12, 2006 02:59 pm Well stated TallChap, very well stated.
